High compression_ methanol injection opinions

[gregaba]

42 degrees seems like a lot of timing for an FE but I don't know how much timing a race 427 would run normally back in the 60's.
The fuel may have something weird with it. May be it wasn't as super as advertised.
I know when I buy a little of the I think 110 from our local air port it seemed my 71 ran a lot better on it and the times at the strip the few times I took it there was a tenth faster but that could have been the weather.
Don't know what I am talking about but that is why I joined this forum to learn and understand a little better my weak points.
Greg

[blykins]

I’ve dynod quite a few MR and TP FEs that like 40-42 degrees.  Big ole inefficient chambers don’t help much.

[My427stang]

Barry those heads and intake have to be the limiting factor, I can’t imagine you are saying that’s a 6600 -7000 rpm cam in a 427 are you?  My gut says airflow problem in that case

Just reporting on the results of an actual and recent dyno (yesterday) test.  Engine sounded good and the curves looked very normal up to around 7200 - then it got queasy and torque dropped off more abruptly - - but we were beyond power peak by then anyways.  Maybe a 2x4 setup would have done better?  Some head porting/filling?  We will never know.  We ran the engine as it was with the parts it had from forever ago - a valve job and some gaskets.

Not a bad way to spend a Friday

[Gaugster]

Glad everyone  is being productive on these peculiar pandemic days. 

Here's a decent video on camshaft selection. The parasitic loss of the camshaft seems to not be fully quantified but the gist seems right. I've always thought of overlap selection being a complement to NA vs boost/NOS.

https://youtu.be/JPAeepqrY-0

Best to understand or measure the dynamic  compression. If you do a compression  test and are getting psi around 240 you might need E85 or some other fuel beside pump gas. A big cam with late closing will reduce the psi to something  reasonable.

[e philpott]

VP Racing Madditve Octanium octane booster added to pump gas is all you need , leave the meth for the meth heads ( pun intended)

[ALLFORD]

I dirve a 66 fairlane on the street 488 ci 12-1 with E-85

[blykins]

Glad everyone  is being productive on these peculiar pandemic days. 

Here's a decent video on camshaft selection. The parasitic loss of the camshaft seems to not be fully quantified but the gist seems right. I've always thought of overlap selection being a complement to NA vs boost/NOS.

https://youtu.be/JPAeepqrY-0

Best to understand or measure the dynamic  compression. If you do a compression  test and are getting psi around 240 you might need E85 or some other fuel beside pump gas. A big cam with late closing will reduce the psi to something  reasonable.

You are correct, camshaft selection is something we have to pay real close attention to for street stuff.  If the cam is short, it can cause a lot of problems for higher compression engines, especially heavy ones. 

However, there's a limit to how far that works.  You can't build a 14:1 engine and think you can run it on pump gas if you run a big enough cam.  (Tongue in cheek....) 

[Barry_R]

Not a bad way to spend a Friday

We had so many old guys watching this thing run that I should have rented a set of bleachers

[blykins]

Not a bad way to spend a Friday

We had so many old guys watching this thing run that I should have rented a set of bleachers

And then you pop on a pump gas hydraulic roller 445 and make more hp lol

[My427stang]

Not a bad way to spend a Friday

We had so many old guys watching this thing run that I should have rented a set of bleachers

No doubt, and although with modern heads and strokers changing outlook, 513 HP was a monster back in the days that car was taking paychecks from people.

[Barry_R]

However, there's a limit to how far that works.  You can't build a 14:1 engine and think you can run it on pump gas if you run a big enough cam.  (Tongue in cheek....) 

Big pet peeve of mine.  No matter what a formula from the internet tells you - at maximum efficiency - torque peak - you are going to have a high compression engine with all the fuel demands that that entails.
When that happens at a higher RPM your odds of hearing - and reacting to - the detonation are lower, and you'll kill the engine without ever realizing that it was crying for help.

[MeanGene]

You should hear old-school V-twin guys- they'll put one together with a lot of compression, and can't start it by electric starter or leg- and you wouldn't believe how expensive those little "high torque" starters are. Their solution is a big cam, just so it will turn over and start- so that becomes a big factor in cam selection. V-twin guys do things in some strange ways- stroker plates etc

[blykins]

You should hear old-school V-twin guys- they'll put one together with a lot of compression, and can't start it by electric starter or leg- and you wouldn't believe how expensive those little "high torque" starters are. Their solution is a big cam, just so it will turn over and start- so that becomes a big factor in cam selection. V-twin guys do things in some strange ways- stroker plates etc

I've heard more than one guy (and they've all been Chevy guys) say something to the tune of...…"I built this one engine once and it was so tight we had to drag the car down the road with a tractor to get it start!"  They say it like it was a good thing.....like putting an engine together with zero bearing clearance is a good thing???

People kill me.

[machoneman]

Just finished running the "real" 427 tunnel port from the "Midnight Express" Maverick which was covered in an article in Hot rod a few decades ago.  Car is/was a Detroit street racing icon back in the day, and the new owner is restoring it to function after a 30 year nap in the original owner's garage.  Engine is true vintage Ford stuff - standard bore with 14:1 Ford pistons, Ford standard stroke crank, Ford block, Ford tunnel port heads (we freshened them and installed new springs), Ford OEM single 4 bbl intake.  And that "D" cam.  Only change from 1970 something is the use of a Holley Terminator EFI and matching distributor.  Only item that gave us any trouble was the new EFI (defective TPS).

Once we got it running it ended up at +/-513 horsepower at 6200 RPM and stayed above the 500 mark through 7000.  Took quite a bit of time because the EFI was kinda unhappy at first, but we fiddled with it until it finally came around.  It revved consistently past 7000 but lost valvetrain control before 7500 RPM.  Did not really matter because it was beyond its power peak by then - nice smooth curve to around 7200 but rolling off.

(added a bit more data..)

Only 513 hp? Would have though much more, like 575 or so.

[Gaugster]

You should hear old-school V-twin guys- they'll put one together with a lot of compression, and can't start it by electric starter or leg- and you wouldn't believe how expensive those little "high torque" starters are. Their solution is a big cam, just so it will turn over and start- so that becomes a big factor in cam selection. V-twin guys do things in some strange ways- stroker plates etc

So I guess it is painfully obvious that my limited engine building experience is with Harley V-Twins... Those bikes use compression releases if they planned it out well. Easy to push a button near the spark plug hole twice before you start your iron horse. Wouldn't recommend that on a V8. Ha!