High compression_ methanol injection opinions

[blykins]

Not me from FB as I have been bared from them for years. Never talked cars or engines while I was on there.
Looks like I will rethink using the D cam. I am finding out what I didn't know about it.
Looked at a stroker kit a few minutes ago and it looks like the biggest kit I can get is a 4.250.
I am loaded up on cams and that is why I bought all of JayB's adapters so I could change cams easier then the stock setup.
4 to 8 thousand is way more RPM then I would consider in a 428.
I also don't want to drive around with 513 rear gears.
The stall speed I could live with but would prefer a little less.
I still want to run at least a 12-1 compression ratio and just have to figure out a good compromise.
E-85 is not available in my area- have never seen a E-85 pump here.
Looks like I have a little re thinking to do.
Greg

Greg, 12:1 will sound a little better, but if you're looking at having to run water/methanol injection, E85, etc., then the hassle outweighs the benefit by a long shot.  E85 helps with compression, but you use a ton of it in comparison to the other types of fuels.  It's also very hard on the fuel lines and components. 

The camshaft plays a role in what you can run.  With the correct setup, you could potentially run 10.5:1 on 91 octane and then you wouldn't have to worry about fuels, injections, etc.

What you're saying about finding out what you didn't know about that C8AX cam, I'm afraid that the other 20-some guys that bought it are in the same boat.  It's a sound machine and simply nothing more. 

[My427stang]

Barry those heads and intake have to be the limiting factor, I can’t imagine you are saying that’s a 6600 -7000 rpm cam in a 427 are you?  My gut says airflow problem in that case

Greg - sorry we came at you both barrels, Turned into a debate in your thread, not at you, there is much better out there IMO, the stroker is good too, 462s are a nice combo.  Keep on planning you can build a better monster

[gregaba]

Oh well live and learn.
I would like to have the 63 in the 11's or low 12's. That would put me in the competition around here.
Don't worry about the thread turn as I have a thick skin. I am not interested in sound as much as a little performance.
This will just be a fun car that I don't have to worry about if it is going to get me to work or break down on the way. If it breaks down it will be when I am not going anywhere important.
Had to many of them over the years.
A 462 sounds interesting and I have a lot of time to decide which way to go.
I can all ways slap some nitrous on it if I am not happy with the performance.
I have read the nitrous threads and might consider it after I get my engine build done.
I am all most sure I will have to change cam's if I do that  that is not a big deal.
I am not wedded to the EFI, I just had an extra unit I was trying to use up.
Greg

[My427stang]

Greg,  power won't be an issue, in fact, a 462 done to match the combo will be real strong and still drivable. 

My recommendation, make the power in the heads and intake, supported by the cam and the right compression, certainly simplified, but you should be able to make all the power you need with far less cam.

Lots of combos from many of us in the dyno section, one in particular is the 461 I did with TFS heads.  It idles mildly, more mild than I'd guess you want from a racer, 16 inches of vacuum, only 235 degree intake lobe and 568 horsepower.  That likely would put you really close to your 1/4 mile goals with good suspension and gearing, but add a little more attitude, and it would get you even more

[blykins]

Oh well live and learn.
I would like to have the 63 in the 11's or low 12's. That would put me in the competition around here.
Don't worry about the thread turn as I have a thick skin. I am not interested in sound as much as a little performance.
This will just be a fun car that I don't have to worry about if it is going to get me to work or break down on the way. If it breaks down it will be when I am not going anywhere important.
Had to many of them over the years.
A 462 sounds interesting and I have a lot of time to decide which way to go.
I can all ways slap some nitrous on it if I am not happy with the performance.
I have read the nitrous threads and might consider it after I get my engine build done.
I am all most sure I will have to change cam's if I do that  that is not a big deal.
I am not wedded to the EFI, I just had an extra unit I was trying to use up.
Greg

Which heads do you have?  You could make a streetable 580-600 hp with TFS heads on pump gas. 

[gregaba]

I have a set of Edelbrock RPm 60065 heads.
Would like to buy a better head in the future. I understand these are a good street head but need some work for a little performance?
Greg

[blykins]

I have a set of Edelbrock RPm 60065 heads.
Would like to buy a better head in the future. I understand these are a good street head but need some work for a little performance?
Greg

Edelbrock used to be the FE staple, but there are so many choices out there now.   They can be worked for more performance.

[gregaba]

Yeah they are an OK head but I would like a better head to start with.
The only issue is cost, nothing is cheap anymore.
Greg

[blykins]

Yeah they are an OK head but I would like a better head to start with.
The only issue is cost, nothing is cheap anymore.
Greg

Ain't that the truth.

[blykins]

Just finished running the "real" 427 tunnel port from the "Midnight Express" Maverick which was covered in an article in Hot rod a few decades ago.  Car is/was a Detroit street racing icon back in the day, and the new owner is restoring it to function after a 30 year nap in the original owner's garage.  Engine is true vintage Ford stuff - standard bore with 14:1 Ford pistons, Ford standard stroke crank, Ford block, Ford tunnel port heads (we freshened them and installed new springs), Ford OEM single 4 bbl intake.  And that "D" cam.  Only change from 1970 something is the use of a Holley Terminator EFI and matching distributor.  Only item that gave us any trouble was the new EFI (defective TPS).

Once we got it running it ended up at +/-513 horsepower at 6600 RPM.  Took quite a bit of time because the EFI was kinda unhappy at first, but we fiddled with it until it finally came around.  It revved consistently past 7000 but lost valvetrain control before 7500 RPM.  Did not really matter because it was beyond its power peak by then - nice smooth curve to around 7200 but rolling off.

Valvetrain issues maybe?  Mike Sea on the other forum said that he used to drag race and run that camshaft with 140/330 spring pressure, with hollow stem valves at 7700 rpm.  Medium Riser 427 heads.

[Barry_R]

Barry those heads and intake have to be the limiting factor, I can’t imagine you are saying that’s a 6600 -7000 rpm cam in a 427 are you?  My gut says airflow problem in that case

Just reporting on the results of an actual and recent dyno (yesterday) test.  Engine sounded good and the curves looked very normal up to around 7200 - then it got queasy and torque dropped off more abruptly - - but we were beyond power peak by then anyways.  Maybe a 2x4 setup would have done better?  Some head porting/filling?  We will never know.  We ran the engine as it was with the parts it had from forever ago - a valve job and some gaskets.

[gregaba]

That still sounds like a good power output considering it was using parts and technology from all most 60 years ago.
Greg

[Barry_R]

Valvetrain issues maybe?  Mike Sea on the other forum said that he used to drag race and run that camshaft with 140/330 spring pressure, with hollow stem valves at 7700 rpm.  Medium Riser 427 heads.

No sign of distress until we were a few hundred RPM beyond power peak.  Cant remember (not at the shop) but I believe we had a little less on the seat but more open pressure.  I suspect that intake & carb/throttle body size might have held it back a bit.  We did make one pull with data to 7500 (means it had to sweep to +/-7700) so seeing those numbers on a tach are certainly possible - but as noted - no real reason to "go there" so we did not on subsequent pulls.

[gregaba]

My un educated guess would be the EFI. All though they have overall better drive ablity then carb's they just don't seem to make the top end power- at least the throttle body's. Direct port is another story from what I have heard.
Greg

[Barry_R]

Certainly could be a combination thing - it sure wanted a LOT of timing - picked up a bunch going from 38 to 40, and a bunch more going to 42, we stopped there (something about continuous beating up on 50 year old parts...).  Fuel may have played a part too - they provided some really high octane unleaded magical stuff and it wanted to be pretty rich - taking it to the 13.0 range killed power compared to middle twelves