1969 Q code 428 CJ Mach 1 Black Jade with Black interior restomod project

[Darkman]

Thanks Drew,

I'm thankful for all the response I'm getting. It's really tough filtering through all the advice. I know that everyone is steering me with my best interest in mind and that is what makes it so tuff as I know everyone's experience is just that, a reality, that worked for them and worked well. No one is trying to sell me something or gain an advantage. They just want me and my project to succeed. I'm really honored that they wish to share. You've seen some of my other posts and the responses some of which led to some confrontational posts. Obviously some of the post were pro and some con but all passionate. It's very difficult to make decisions confronted with all of the quality advice I've received. It is all helpful and I'm thankful for it. From some of my other forum post questions I've almost completely ruled out an aluminum block and now will go with a BBM cast block. Originally I was only thinking of which aluminum  block I'd use. So for those of you still reading I take all advice seriously and I run it through myself and my potential builders. I think I've made a decision on the builder but I'm keeping quite on that for now.

See you at Moultrie Drew.

[67428GT500]

I knew Bill, not Charles Meyer.  If you're referencing the guy in CA there are much better choices.  I like the traction masters on my Shelby.  Between the Traction Masters, factory Shelby leaf spring snubbers,  the 180 LB  Trans Am leafs and Konis it's a far cry from Ford/Shelby stock.  It does bite down better but it just leaves the rubber on the pavement.

[cjshaker]

When it comes to drag strip duty, and getting a car to hook, it's all about weight transfer and rear end separation, to plant the tires on the pavement. That means a freely moving front suspension with lighter springs, and a rear suspension that will allow the axles to be pushed down to plant the tires. Exactly the opposite of what you want for corner handling.

With the coil over suspension you're considering, which can have adjustable spring rates, and quality double adjustable shocks, like QA1 or Viking, you could probably get enough adjustment out of the front end to get a happy medium between the two types of racing. But the rear is another story, and a panhard bar is not drag friendly. Watts links, panhard bars and other types will limit rear suspension separation, and that hurts traction pretty badly. Racing around corners involves limiting suspension travel, exactly the opposite of what you want to go down a drag strip.

If you want the best of both worlds, my suggestion would be to just find that happy medium and enjoy the car for what it is. Either way, it'll be a blast to drive! 

[machoneman]

Methinks you need to step back a tad and figure out what you want. A car that can be easily restored to OEM someday? Or, a car that looks near stock on casual inspection? More straight line drag-type speed or a cruiser with great handling? Stock looking under the hood or the hell with that and highlight the all-aluminum engine?

Point is, an aluminum blocked engine and coil-over fronts ain't what I would call easy to swap back. And as CJ and others have already stated, some rear suspension set-ups don't lend themselves to drag duty nor vice-versa track/road work. Hollowing out the power brake booster for a 'stock' look make sense...until one spies those coil-overs and other non-Ford front suspension pieces.

All in all, you've good some great ideas but it's what you want the car to be in the end that counts. I had many of the same issues when I bought my gennie '70 Mach 1 in pieces. Blown engine, bad trans but straight, California rust-free and great refreshed paint. Fast forward, it ended up pretty much exactly where I wanted (no body work or paint needed, but everything else needed attention or replacement) but only after a lot of thought...and a calculator in hand! Point is, it seems you have time due to the body work needed to flesh out all the suspension, engine, interior things you want. Taking your time now will pay big dividends later.

[mbrunson427]

Have you looked at these guys yet? I think your suspension solution lies somewhere within their offerings.

https://opentrackerracing.com/

[machoneman]

Have you looked at these guys yet? I think your suspension solution lies somewhere within their offerings.

https://opentrackerracing.com/

I've had the Opentracker roller springs perches on my Mach1 since 2005 and they are great. A tad noisy on tar strips at times but the smoothness of the suspension action, compared to even brand new rubber-encased perch t-bars, is something to see when working the suspension by hand w/o the springs installed. Btw, a lot of the newer Heim-end jointed suspension parts are also great (will add more next year) as they beat the OEM joints big time. 

[67428GT500]

+1 on the roller perches.  I have been wanting to convert to the "Trans AM" brakes just to retain the KH brake look from the exterior.  I just can't justify 2200.00 with Wilwoods that would do a much better job.  When you're trying to keep a car very close to all Ford it just gets ridiculously expensive.

[Darkman]

Methinks you need to step back a tad and figure out what you want. A car that can be easily restored to OEM someday? Or, a car that looks near stock on casual inspection? More straight line drag-type speed or a cruiser with great handling? Stock looking under the hood or the hell with that and highlight the all-aluminum engine?

Point is, an aluminum blocked engine and coil-over fronts ain't what I would call easy to swap back. And as CJ and others have already stated, some rear suspension set-ups don't lend themselves to drag duty nor vice-versa track/road work. Hollowing out the power brake booster for a 'stock' look make sense...until one spies those coil-overs and other non-Ford front suspension pieces.

All in all, you've good some great ideas but it's what you want the car to be in the end that counts. I had many of the same issues when I bought my gennie '70 Mach 1 in pieces. Blown engine, bad trans but straight, California rust-free and great refreshed paint. Fast forward, it ended up pretty much exactly where I wanted (no body work or paint needed, but everything else needed attention or replacement) but only after a lot of thought...and a calculator in hand! Point is, it seems you have time due to the body work needed to flesh out all the suspension, engine, interior things you want. Taking your time now will pay big dividends later.

Thanks my wish list is a bit of a stretch and I realize that. When Shelby took his cars to race against Europes best it wasnt the handling that one the race. It was the acceleration after the curves. I'll be satisfied with PDG handling and outstanding acceleration which to me is a compromise and an achievable one. I never intend to sell this car but after I'm gone someone may have a different idea of what the car should be so I'm limiting the modifications to bolt on which grantedly may not be easy but are definitely doable.

I have the Boss 302 chassis modifications book and I'm familiar with the Open Tracker mods. The Export Brace and Monte Carlo bar I have. I've ordered the inner shock tower braces. The CJ comes with the engine side shock tower braces. The TCP Power Steering kit replace the crossmember with an aluminum one that is far superior than the gussetted factory one. The TCP upper and lower arms are completely reengineered for maximum strength and better geometry including the Shelby drop that gives a superior geometry. The old coil spring on the upper A frame is now a coil over conversion that lowers the top attachment point and the lower point is moved to the lower arm and moved towards the the lower ball joint. This changes the ratio of movement the shock sees from around .5 to 1 to .78 to 1 which is much better allowing the shock to work much better. A large diameter shock properly valves by a professional will insure optimal control keeping the tires in contact with the pavement. A one inch drop spindle using late model stubs with large bearings for more strength and lowering the car for better handling. Finally Wilwood disc with black calipers will stop it all quickly and safely.

I say all that to show that I've taken to heart all of the suggestions made by tall and by the old Boss 302 chassis mods for racing and the new offerings from Open Tracker and companies such as Total Control Products. I'm hoping that I will achieve the right blend to best achieve my goals.

I didnt forget the sway bar, just havent decided on that yet.

It should be fun for sure! Thanks for all the suggestions and encouraging comments.

[Darkman]

Well guys I got a small update. Originally I was trying to figure away to put a modern EODE behind my FE build to get the overdrive but was dissuaded from that path and it was suggested to use the C6 and a Gear Vendors overdrive. The kits to do the EODE are available but using the C6 was more appealing to me unfortunately as I researched the GV overdrive I found several reports of the unit causing high temps in the transmission. Today I stumbled up on the Ford 6 speed 6R80. I believe this is the solution to my transmission pick. It can handle the horsepower and isn't much bigger than the C6. I'm not sure yet but I dont think it will require modifying the tunnel. After 2011 Ford modified it to use an external ECU and that has made it a perfect match for restomodders. Parts and controllers are being made for these trans since the ECU is now external. It has a lock up converter in all 6 gears and first gear ratios as low as 4.16. RPM drop is significantly reduced with the tight ratios keeping it in the best torque and horsepower band. Not that I'm building anything close to this but there are Mustangs running in the 8's at 160 mph with this transmission. Double overdrive let's you cruise effortlessly.  So my plans are fluid but I think this will be my last trans "swap". 

I did get my weld in outer shock tower braces today from West Coast Cougars.

On a bad note my body shop of choice is having trouble keeping a painter and that cant be good!

I'll update more as things occur!

[jmlay]

Crazy timing as I was looking at OD options. 4r70 would be smaller and have OD.

[Drew Pojedinec]

I’ve never had issue with a GV overheating my transmission.
Only way I see that is if someone spec’d a high stall convertor, did not plan for the overdrive, and did not run a larger enough cooler.

[Darkman]

The EAOD is a 4R70 or version of it I believe. It is a 5 spd. Kits are available but the transmission is old design and I think the 6R80 is a better transmission to start with. It's heavy duty and can handle some serious horsepower stock.

Drew I thought the same thing and was going to ask you about it but when I saw this today it sure seems like a winner. I'm hoping that if there is bad news someone will tell me. Having 6 speeds is a good thing.

[Drew Pojedinec]

E4OD and many of the five-six speeds are freakin massive. That is one negative.

When I went through the whole decision making process, My Galaxie really couldn’t fit most of these transmissions.
I considered an AOD, etc, but you are using so many custom parts, I just wasn’t a fan.

The c6 I have is built with all stock parts. The convertor is just a c6 part. If I needed, any part in the transmission could be at my door in a day or two. I built the c6 myself, and honestly I do not make enough power to hurt it.
A GV fails in such a way that you just lose overdrive. It doesn’t kill the vehicle.

[Darkman]

Certainly something to consider. I think your logic is one of the reasons I like the 6R80. Any transmission shop is familiar with them and parts are on the shelf. I doubt that I'd ever need it though since these transmission are nearly bullet proof. Ford is using them in almost everything now from heavy duty trucks to Mustangs. The one thing I need to explore is the aftermarket controller. I dont know if it has a limp home mode. Something to consider. Of course i still have to find out if the thing will even fit without major surgery.

[RustyCrankshaft]

You are really limited on standalone controllers for the newer automatics. The E4OD/4R100 is easy to control with a standalone as is the 4R70/AODE.

There is nothing wrong with a C6 and gearvendors. It won't cause any excessive heat if the parts are spec'd properly and back in the day a lot of motorhomes and pickups used them behind C6's and they lived very long happy lives pulling stuff.

Earlier you said you wanted to keep this a resto-mod with no permanent changes so it could be put back to stock correct. If that is the case you will have a hard time using anything bigger than an 4R70 without it either hanging down or having to modify the floor/tunnel. At least from the few Mustangs I've done this swap to that was the case.

A C6/GV is a pretty bullet proof combo any shop can work on and it's reasonably priced. 4-5k ish depending on your C6 build. That's as much as a lot of newer 6-8-10 speed automatic used takeouts will run you and then you still need to install it and find a way to control it.