1968 Colony Park 482

[FirstEliminator]

Bright green. There is no cloudiness to the oil. It's minimal contamination, but still it's contamination.

[blykins]

Just sitting there by the valve springs?   Did you look into the lifter valley?

[Towd56]

Mark - that is one cool car. Never see them. Can't wait to see that beauty running down the track..................
 I'm planning on going to Lebanon for the Dover Reunion - maybe we can meet up

It sounds like it is giving you a run for your money? Looks like you have quite the stable of cars too? Maybe its time to let that long roof go to a loving home - I do offer an adoption service for orphaned wagons. 

[FirstEliminator]

Hi Dennis,

    I wanted to stop over and say hi to ya at Musclepalooza, but I was running around talking to so many people. I live in North Adams. It's a little out of the way from your place to Lebanon, but you are welcome to stop by any time.

   eh.....I'm really bad at selling stuff. Especially Mercs.

    Mark

[Towd56]

Got it. Wasn’t sure if you were going to be at Lebanon for the Dover reunion. Hop to se that wagon a an even soon

[FirstEliminator]

Oil pan is back off. I can't find anything astray. I did notice the block to trans spacer plate is a little bowed towards the convertor. Rotating the engine I can see anywhere it was touching. Being in a transmission shop for 20+ years I am familiar with spacer plate noise. This doesn't sound that way. Although the noise is loud at the trans bell.  Loudest at the bottom of the back of the oil pan---not the sump area.  It's 2:15am and I think I am done for the night.
 
Almost done.

 One thing I have never heard has been a spun bearing. I can just barely see the parting line of the #5. Or, I think I see it. Thought about dropping the rear cap, but dreading it with hoping the seals would go back together and actually seal again.   
   Up and down pressure was put on all the rod big ends and I cannot feel any play from them.  Turned the crank to see all the cylinder walls checking for scoring from a piston pin walking out----good.
 
  Oil pump looks good.

   It's almost 3. I think I am going to bed.

   

[My427stang]

If you just have a minor water leak, you can use stop leak, it's pretty magical stuff if you have a small leak.  It basically helps or it doesn't, new cars come with it, won't hurt anything

As far as the noise, can you see the ends of the flywheel bolts into the crankshaft?  I have seen many that were too long and would hit the crank if not changed or cut

Does the noise go away as it warms up?  I fought a felixible block a few years back where I didn't torque plate hone and I had piston slap, a decent tick that got a little better with heat as things expanded.  That block taught me to never cheat, sonic check, torque plate hone, won't get bit again.  Cylinders moved .008 in some places, noise was hard to pin down, but I always wanted to go to the bellhousing like you said

Listen here at 29, 44, and 50 seconds.  See if it is similar. Ignore the rattle at the end, that was the transfer case shifter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnSd_lMyFNM

In the end, if it is piston slap, it likely will live a long life

[FirstEliminator]

Hi Ross thanks for the reply with the video. I was able to get about another 1/4-3/8 turn retorquing the intake bolts. Before tightening the bolts I did put a pressure tester on the cooling system at 20 psi for about a half hour. The pressure dropped a couple pounds, but it is also leaking around the screw in freeze plugs. I think I will leave the intake gaskets in place and add some Bars Leak.
    The noise does not subside when the engine warms up. it does sound similar to the noise yours made.

 The flywheel bolts are not too long. I can see that the bolt threads do no protrude through the crank flange.
   A friend was talking about cam endplay. I did stick a big screw driver up to move the cam back and forth. But couldn't move it, suspecting the valve springs were putting too much pressure on it.

   Took the day off from the 482 today.  Spent time painting porch spindles.  Oil pan is still off so I will continue tomorrow....maybe.

thanks,
    Mark
 

[My427stang]

Hi Ross thanks for the reply with the video. I was able to get about another 1/4-3/8 turn retorquing the intake bolts. Before tightening the bolts I did put a pressure tester on the cooling system at 20 psi for about a half hour. The pressure dropped a couple pounds, but it is also leaking around the screw in freeze plugs. I think I will leave the intake gaskets in place and add some Bars Leak.
    The noise does not subside when the engine warms up. it does sound similar to the noise yours made.

 The flywheel bolts are not too long. I can see that the bolt threads do no protrude through the crank flange.
   A friend was talking about cam endplay. I did stick a big screw driver up to move the cam back and forth. But couldn't move it, suspecting the valve springs were putting too much pressure on it.

   Took the day off from the 482 today.  Spent time painting porch spindles.  Oil pan is still off so I will continue tomorrow....maybe.

thanks,
    Mark
 

Mark, you must be frustrated if porch spindles trumps car work!  LOL

If it is sloppy bores, it likely won't get significantly worse or fail you, but I sure hated it.

Was your engine torque plate honed and were the pistons fit?  In my case, I was trying to cheat and use a better block on a customer build and reuse a block that had been prepped by a third party on my own.  In the end, it was not torque plate honed, and when I checked the bores cold, no heads, it was pretty straight, but when I bolted the heads on and went from the bottom, all hell broke loose.  Pistons were .0025-.003 clearance and I was in the .008 range and no two matched

I am confident it would have continued to run now, but I couldn't stand not knowing at the time, built a bench 390 that is in the truck now, and did a fresh 461 that sits on a stand waiting to go in the truck

[FirstEliminator]

Hi Ross,

    I am not sure if torque plates were used. The block was supposedly good, but things weren't perfect so it got bored/honed to 4.25.

    Sloppy bores are something I am not sure of. I've thrown rings and bearings in worn out engines that were honed with a ball hone and they ran much more quietly than this 482.

    The thought of replacing this block would be the pinnacle of frustration.

   The porch spindles are a decade overdue, but fun to make progress on. Painting this old Victorian is a major to-do. To paint it the way I am painting it with proper prep, a professional told me it would cost about 50K to paint this house. It's been a long term project that I am doing myself.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kyo5FmVU6E&list=PLmd7EZ1chb36MaW08aWGbdVgYpzv4VBux

[My427stang]

Hi Ross,

    I am not sure if torque plates were used. The block was supposedly good, but things weren't perfect so it got bored/honed to 4.25.

    Sloppy bores are something I am not sure of. I've thrown rings and bearings in worn out engines that were honed with a ball hone and they ran much more quietly than this 482.

    The thought of replacing this block would be the pinnacle of frustration.

   The porch spindles are a decade overdue, but fun to make progress on. Painting this old Victorian is a major to-do. To paint it the way I am painting it with proper prep, a professional told me it would cost about 50K to paint this house. It's been a long term project that I am doing myself.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kyo5FmVU6E&list=PLmd7EZ1chb36MaW08aWGbdVgYpzv4VBux

Nice work!   I love the old Victorian stuff, until you want a king sized bed or have to move big stuff in or out of the house!  Growing up in Mass, you get to appreciate the beauty of those homes, especially when kept beautiful.  Labor of love

[BattlestarGalactic]

Fantastic work Mark.  I marvel at those old homes and all the wood details.  Though, like you are going through, the massive amount of work to restore them(correctly).

[FirstEliminator]

Last night, simultaneously, I had both energy and time to check further into the 482. I pulled the rear bearing cap and the bearing was polished, very shiney.  A few weeks ago I purchased plastigage and thought about using it last night but decided not to take the rod caps apart. Pushing and pulling on the rod big ends I can't get any movement of the rods. Also it seems unlikely the Scat crank and rods would be a problem---but yes, anything can happen.  If the rod bearings had enough clearance to make some noise, I would think I could feel that by grasping the big end and moving it in the direction of travel. Should I bother with the plastigage on the rods?
   The rocker shafts came off last night. I pried back and forth on the cam to check it's end play. There wasn't much movement. Between the retainer and the cam sprocket I could see a small line of oil squeeze out when pushed, and get drawn back in when pulled.
   Looking carefully around the block to trans spacer plate I couldn't see signs of anything making contact. I might pull the trans, then reinstall without the convertor to see if that changes anything.
     Crankshaft endplay is at .008"
   

     I'd love to get this noise quieted. Or just dump a worn out 390 back in. It's frustrating to spend a lot of effort on this and be too worried to run it. It's even more annoying to not identify the noise.....yet. 

[My427stang]

In the end, I think it's probably time to pull it out and take it apart slowly, unless you think another set of ears may recognize the problem

SCAT crank and rods often need off-size bearings, I generally see them being a little loose, but they can need more room sometimes too.

The .008 crank endplay is good, and my hunch is your cam endplay is good, but a shiny bearing in a fresh engine is not.  In fact, most bearings look relatively unchanged after initial run, if yours is polishing up, there may be an issue.

Look close at the piston bosses, there were some SCAT cranks that could lightly hit the piston at BTDC, and after that, not much left to do but tear in and measure everything

Last comment, be completely sure it isn't an accessory or something, belt rubbing, bad PS pump, not saying you wouldn't recognize it, but just look real close before it comes out

[FirstEliminator]