1961 390 FE First Build suggestions

[Ric7501]

Hello and Greetings from Finland.
Me and my dad bought a month ago a 1961 Mercury Monterey 4 door with the 300hp 4bbl FE 390 engine (Z code) that has not been run sence 1998 when it was in California just as a Father and Son project. (Its got factory AC  )

The engine is out and disassembled and went to a machine shop to bore the cylinders. They were pretty rough in the bores and water had pooled in them over the years. 0.040 over bore was not enough so we went with 0.060 overbore. Crank was great and the rest of the engine.
We now need to order pistons and a complete overhaul kit for the engine but we both are used to wrench Ford Y-Blocks in pretty much stock form so just to be sure we wont mismatch parts (high rpm/low rpm) and have to order parts again which is extremely expensive to Finland (25% tax + shipping!) we decided to ask politely from a Forum that has some experience on a setup.
The engine is going to be used for some highway cruising but mostly cruising, ripping some BMW's on the strips and getting some heads to turn on late evenings. It doesn't have to be a space shuttle but enough to put a grin to my face.
A little lumpy idle would be nice. 

Block is a 300hp 390 1961 without the web reinforcements that some trucks got at main bearings. Non Cross bolted mains. Hydraulic lifters.

Setup we were thinking about:
Flat top pistons to bump compression
Dont know what cam yet (suggestions?)
Edelbrock Performer RPM intake (stock is C1ae 9425b) (suggestions?)
Keeping the stock C1AE 6090-A heads with diy gasket matching, slight port job to remove casting imperfections and they should have 2.02" Intake and 1.55" Exhaust valves. 71.2-74.2cc combustion chamber.
Stock Autolite 4100 1.12 bore 590cfm or if we can find an used aftermarket carburetor for cheap. Because we will probably go Holley Sniper EFI in the future.
Drill oil pump output hole in block a little bigger and fix the crank bearing lubrication holes thats restrictive.
Stock Distributor with a petronix points delete and a High Voltage Coil for now
High volume oil pump + Reinforced pump shaft
Stock Rods (Dont know if you can get old rod bolts out and replace with ARP?)
Some grinding to help oil from pooling in heads and lifter valley
Double Roller Cam chain
Budget aftermarket oil pan with some baffle
I haven't found any aftermarket headers that will fit the chassis and there's little room for real headers so probably got to fabricate my own.
Diy 2.5 or 3" exhaust with X pipe
Removing stock mechanical Fan and replacing with Volvo 850 radiator fan. (to get more even coolant temps)
For now stock Ford Merc-o-matic Medium case 3 speed Dual Range + external oil cooler (C6 transmission may be bought at some point)
3.22:1 Stock Rear end

We were looking at SummitRacing for individual parts and then we found that Ebay has Enginetech Inc. 390 FE stage 1 rebuild kits like:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Stage-1-Master-Rebuild-Overhaul-Kit-w-Flat-Top-Pistons-for-Ford-FE-390/163214175786?epid=26022915865&hash=item260052ae2a:g:3hAAAOSwoYxbfHRA
or from Summit but has dished pistons. without cam.
https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/fem-mkp601f-600/overview/make/ford
But they seem way to cheap to be reliable? And does anyone know why these "Kits" have 1968-1973 years and some have like 1960-1973. Are all FE 390 kits pretty much same quality?

Feel free to point us in any direction and all help will be appreciated! 

[mikeelikee]

Drill oil pump output hole in block a little bigger and fix the crank bearing lubrication holes that is restrictive. [/i]
Leave the crank bearing holes alone Ford did that for a reason, to balance oil volumes at all bearings. It will not hurt anything to do it but is not needed.

Standard volume pump is all that is needed.

Flat top pistons to bump compression
Be sure and get the proper compression height pistons. ( 1.760-1.770  height to minimize quench. At .060 over you possibly will be in the pricier territory. Some of the builder on here can point you in the right direction.

[gdaddy01]

tap the front of the block for a cam trust plate , a lot more cam choices this way . you have got to have a trust plate to run a newer style cam . good luck on your build .

[Heo]

Greetings from Sweden Ric,
I can tell you what i have, 390+060 squaredecked to zero 10.155", speedpro forged flat tops comp cams 282 solid
Ported edelbrock streetmaster, 750 Holley VS modified by Tobbemek on this Forum, C4-G heads with CJ Valves fixed short turn radius opened up around
valveguides, stock shorty castiron headers. Re curved Ford Duraspark and MSD box 2,5 exhaust. Pulls strong and smooth from idle to as high i dare to pull it no flat spots no peeks just an even pull. Idles smoothish at 650-700 rpm
Here with 800 dp and open exhaust
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hu0N8MUT1u8
Idling in drive with the built 750 and mufflers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP1PQ5NaC_k
Can idle in drive a full day no overheating no fouled plugs
There is a build thread on the engine here under members projeckts

[67428GT500]

I would have the block sonic checked for cylinder thickness before you buy anything. .060 is about the limit on most FE blocks.  Ask me why I suggested this...
Don't buy anything until you know the cylinder walls are north of .110 thick.
                                                                                                                -Keith

[Ric7501]

Thanks guys for all recent suggestions!
Will concider all of them!
Will definitively try to find someone that can sonic check thickness and do the thrust
plate. we got 2 352 blocks at home. one got frozen and cracked lifter valley, second one needs to be bored. Got to check if they have the thrust plate i can use on the 390

[blykins]

I will note here that the holes in the main saddles must be corrected if a 3/4 groove bearing is used.

Factory/stock replacement bearings have a huge feed hole in them.  The hole is big enough that it doesn't matter where the hole is in the main bore saddle, it will still get oil.

When you go to a "performance" bearing, such as a 125M, the hole is much smaller and alignment is much more critical.  When I use a performance bearing, I always lay back the feed hole in the saddle to match.   Some bearings will all but cover up that hole and that's not good at all. 

[Ric7501]

Thanks guys for the comments! We have found and bought full length headers and a old Edelbrock Streetmaster 390 intake that we will use with the stock carburator for now and portmatch with the heads we got.

We are stuck with camshaft options because we don't have any thrust plate to use with newer cams and we would be happy if someone would choose a camshaft kit for us from Summit Racing. We literally know nothing about suitable camshaft duration's and lifts and summit got loads of options. 
Heres the specs on the block and purpose again.

1961 300hp stock, 390 old type camshaft block without thrust plate. And we like to have a street powerband of 1500rpm to 5500 with around 400-450hp

Would this be a good choice using stock rockers and push rods?
https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/cca-k33-224-3/overview/make/ford

Then i have found very little info about converting the cam retaining from old setup to new type thrust plate.
This was some good info i found http://www.mercurystuff.com/articles/352_skiddoo_hello_428.html
I know i got to drill and tap the holes for the plate but does something else need to be swapped? Like fuel pump and such?

Im a metal fabricator and was thinking if i would make a new thrust plate with a cnc laser cutter and polish the surface that faces the cam. I tried to search for new and used plates but they seem to be hard to find.

Thanks if someone would link us an straight forward "kit" that would fit us! 

[Heo]

The thrust plates is available new, bought mine from Barry Survivalmotorsport
have both Steel and bronc

[falcongeorge]

https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/isk-351271/overview/
more lift and 2 degree tighter LSA than the comp.

[Ranch]

Cam Thrust plate and bolts and other FE stuff

http://stores.precisionoilpumps.com/valvetrain/

Good guy to deal with

We have some engine builders here that will most likely point you in the right direction

You'll have Welsh Plugs for your Oil Galleys. You can replace some with 1/4" NPT plugs but not all, so my opinion, just replace them with new plugs

[blykins]

Thanks guys for the comments! We have found and bought full length headers and a old Edelbrock Streetmaster 390 intake that we will use with the stock carburator for now and portmatch with the heads we got.

We are stuck with camshaft options because we don't have any thrust plate to use with newer cams and we would be happy if someone would choose a camshaft kit for us from Summit Racing. We literally know nothing about suitable camshaft duration's and lifts and summit got loads of options. 
Heres the specs on the block and purpose again.

1961 300hp stock, 390 old type camshaft block without thrust plate. And we like to have a street powerband of 1500rpm to 5500 with around 400-450hp

Would this be a good choice using stock rockers and push rods?
https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/cca-k33-224-3/overview/make/ford

Then i have found very little info about converting the cam retaining from old setup to new type thrust plate.
This was some good info i found http://www.mercurystuff.com/articles/352_skiddoo_hello_428.html
I know i got to drill and tap the holes for the plate but does something else need to be swapped? Like fuel pump and such?

Im a metal fabricator and was thinking if i would make a new thrust plate with a cnc laser cutter and polish the surface that faces the cam. I tried to search for new and used plates but they seem to be hard to find.

Thanks if someone would link us an straight forward "kit" that would fit us! 

I'm not a shelf cam proponent, but if you're wanting a shelf cam from Summit, I'd go this route: 

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hrs-252461-12/overview/make/ford

You don't need a lot of duration because you need to focus on torque with a heavy vehicle and the rearend gear that you have.  I also prefer intake/exhaust duration split on factory heads (and pretty much every other head, barring a few exceptions in application).   50° of overlap on that one, which will work power brakes really well, but enough overlap to add some performance a little sound. 

I would definitely drill/tap for a thrust plate.  I'm assuming you're using a new timing set and you would just leave the spacer off.  You can use whatever fuel pump and eccentric you want, as long as the eccentric is compatible with the timing set. 

I wouldn't get carried away with compression, you'll end up hurting yourself more than you will help yourself.   9-9.5:1 with these shorter duration camshafts will be plenty and will keep you out of trouble with pump gas.

[My427stang]

I just noticed your enginetech kit, I'd stay away. Their hard parts aren't bad, but their gasket kits are the worst you will ever see.  I tried to use one on a cheap built and ended up buying a Felpro kit

I COMPLETELY agree with Brent's recommendation to add a cam retainer plate, super easy to do and allows you to run all off the shelf parts.  I also like his cam choice, but for another option,  I built a sweetheart of a little 390 for a 390 truck about 2 years back that would work well for you too.  His ran a Performer 390, but would only have been better with the Streetmaster or RPM.

- L2291 Forged TRWs (a little more money, usually at about 9.25, but nice tight quench and good parts)
- Edelbrock Performer Plus cam and lifters

Basically deck the block ..010, use a Felpro gasket kit with the blue gasket and you have smooth running, happy torquey 390.  It will idle smooth, not much cam sounds, but they run nice for something like you are doing.  Icing on the cake would be a distributor recurve if you can find someone out there.

If you go cast pistons, they will all be way below deck and although it'll do fine, you are giving up power and likely making it a bit fussier on fuel

[plovett]

I agree on keeping the compression ratio down.  In a big car with a mild cam and mild gears, it will be much better to have lower compression and more ignition timing.   That will work better than having higher compression and less ignition timing. 

JMO,

paulie

[RustyCrankshaft]

I just noticed your enginetech kit, I'd stay away. Their hard parts aren't bad, but their gasket kits are the worst you will ever see.  I tried to use one on a cheap built and ended up buying a Felpro kit

I COMPLETELY agree with Brent's recommendation to add a cam retainer plate, super easy to do and allows you to run all off the shelf parts.  I also like his cam choice, but for another option,  I built a sweetheart of a little 390 for a 390 truck about 2 years back that would work well for you too.  His ran a Performer 390, but would only have been better with the Streetmaster or RPM.

- L2291 Forged TRWs (a little more money, usually at about 9.25, but nice tight quench and good parts)
- Edelbrock Performer Plus cam and lifters

Basically deck the block ..010, use a Felpro gasket kit with the blue gasket and you have smooth running, happy torquey 390.  It will idle smooth, not much cam sounds, but they run nice for something like you are doing.  Icing on the cake would be a distributor recurve if you can find someone out there.

If you go cast pistons, they will all be way below deck and although it'll do fine, you are giving up power and likely making it a bit fussier on fuel

Enginetech also only offers the shorter compression height for 390 pistons the last time I called them (unless the fill-in guy I spoke with is clueless which is possible) and did not offer a 1.770. For cast pistons I ended up with KB Hypers which was close in CH to the 2291's. In my undecked 105 360 block they ended up .015 in the hole, but with a steel shim it was a wash and plenty good for the pickup it went in.

I haven't had a lot of problems on stockish stuff with their headgaskets, but everything else I think they make out of recycled newspaper.  Their hardparts are mostly reboxed from the majors. Most of their kits I've bought in the last few years had King ACL (I think ACL series, I'd have to look at the book again to verify) mains and rods, melling oil pump, etc.