Author Topic: New Lifters on cam. How risky?  (Read 4149 times)

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67428GT500

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New Lifters on cam. How risky?
« on: June 21, 2019, 03:01:58 PM »
The damn cat got into the garage and knocked my valvetrain tray over and scattered everything. The cam with 390 miles on it broke in beautifully. I would assume at this juncture it's unsafe to reuse the lifters?  I am so pissed off I can't see straight and it's just one thing after another.

GerryP

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Re: New Lifters on cam. How risky?
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2019, 04:03:59 PM »
Back in the old days -before everyone was building Pro Stock and F1 engines and we didn't have the benefit of the Internet- we, well a lot of us, anyway, would have just plopped the lifters in the bore and called it good.  As long as things were clean and fit well, all was good.  And you know what?  The engines ran good and performed as they should.  Yeah, we really did that and it was common.

It should go without saying you will bring the ire of the collective forum should you even suggest such a thing could be done.  I understand the argument that a pack of new lifters and a repeat break-in is a small price to pay.  Hard to argue against that, but I suppose that is really the nature of my opening statement.  I do fully understand what is going on with the cam and lifter during the break-in.  Don't bother explaining that to me as if I were an imbecile.  Would you be okay just dropping them in a bore?  Maybe and probably yes, but no guarantee of success.  But then, you run some risk with any flat tappet cam with all new parts.  So, for that reason, you need to run a roller cam.

Edit:  I wanted to add that I would probably replace them since they fell, you don't know if there is damage not apparent to the eye.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2019, 04:15:13 PM by GerryP »

Falcon67

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Re: New Lifters on cam. How risky?
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2019, 04:43:05 PM »
Not worth the chance IMHO.  I've already lost a cam with a carefully stored matching/broke in set of lifters that went back in the same holes.  "Bad Kitty! Go find me a new set of lifters!"

gt350hr

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Re: New Lifters on cam. How risky?
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2019, 05:12:30 PM »
  I've done it where there was NO other option , but "I" would put new ones in just because of the rash of cam issues in the last several years. Spend now to save later.
    Randy

67428GT500

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Re: New Lifters on cam. How risky?
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2019, 05:46:29 PM »
This wasn't a Comp cams or Erson Chinese core. It was a custom grind from SLR cams and done several years ago. There is still some break in coating on the lobes and all the lifters still have a crown. It was being moved to another block after the cylinder crack in #4.
I was told I'd be better off using the Johnson lifters on the cam than new ones by the grinder. He said it was an 80-20 chance. I would also have to remove the inner spring run them and re-install the inner in the vehicle. I just had the new block square decked, aligned honed, bored and tanked.
Crap never ends. Anyone care for BBQ cat?
         

Yellow Truck

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Re: New Lifters on cam. How risky?
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2019, 06:05:25 PM »
Tough luck, but not the cat's fault. It was just being a cat. Go and pet it for a while and get you blood pressure down, then order new lifters (given what you have spent and the nature of the cam).
1969 F100 4WD (It ain't yellow anymore)
445 with BBM heads, Prison Break stroker kit, hydrualic roller cam, T&D rockers, Street Dominator Intake with QFT SS 830.

Paul.

427LX

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Re: New Lifters on cam. How risky?
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2019, 06:22:14 PM »
Put the old lifters back in since maybe not same hole,in case you are lucky, the lifters were original to the cam and broke in.

Nightmist66

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Re: New Lifters on cam. How risky?
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2019, 06:23:55 PM »
Going on three years ago before I started a new 390 build, I had a couple hyd lifters not pumping up like they should. Ordered new lifters and installed them on the old cam. I used Isky Rev Lube generously. The cam was an old Wolverine. I didn't even take the inner valve springs out. Pressure was 135/350lbs. Risky, I know. Broke them in like a new cam and lifters and had no issue. I feel the cam failures these days are junk cores and/or heat treat. Not many problems with the old stuff....
Jared



66 Fairlane GT 390 - .035" Over 390, Wide Ratio Top Loader, 9" w/spool, 4.86

67428GT500

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Re: New Lifters on cam. How risky?
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2019, 06:41:27 PM »
Steve Long Racing Cams. ( Formerly Babe Erson) cut the custom grind. I called him and told him what happened. He said to check to make sure they have a little crown and run the break-in oil and a container of ZDDP additive and the moly break in lube liberally on the lobes. Run it like a new cam for 12 minutes.
He mentioned what Nightmist did. They are hardened and are different than the new cores. 
By the way, I love my cats.  The big white hairball Alexander the Great likes to come out with me when I'm working. I'm not going to cook him.
He knew I was pissed. Came right in and laid down and wrapped his arms around my neck.  Been a shitty week. I found out my father has late-stage prostate cancer to go with the other B.S.
My temperament isn't my usual.

falcongeorge

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Re: New Lifters on cam. How risky?
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2019, 07:49:20 PM »
are the lifters hard faced? Is there a line around the body of the lifter about 3/16" up from the face? I'll probably go pm if the answer is yes, don't want to get into an endless "you cant do that, it says so in the magazines" pissing match.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2019, 07:55:28 PM by falcongeorge »

falcongeorge

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Re: New Lifters on cam. How risky?
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2019, 07:54:47 PM »
pm sent

67428GT500

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Re: New Lifters on cam. How risky?
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2019, 08:43:20 PM »
Yes, they do have the line.
                                 -Keith

410bruce

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Re: New Lifters on cam. How risky?
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2019, 09:30:27 PM »
Sorry to hear that about your dad, Keith.  :(

Back in the mid '80s I was helping a friend out with his FE circle track '69 Galaxie. I borrowed a 427 experimental camshaft from my boss at the time to install into a mongrel engine we put together--352 block and 390 crank.
I set the cam and lifters into the back of my '72 Ranchero GT, carefully keeping the lifters in sequence and headed up to his house, which was up in the hills a bit via a winding road.
Well, when I got there the lifters were all rolling around in the bed. lol. Stuck them in and had zero problems.

He didn't live but probably a half dozen miles from the track and I ended up driving that thing there because his other buddy was a no-show with the hauler.
We ran the hobby stock class and you were supposed to run a stock engine. It was funny as heck when I drove up in that car--not only because I drove it on the streets to get there but  it idled like a nascar stocker. lol. They didn't care because he never won anyway.  :)

cammerfe

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Re: New Lifters on cam. How risky?
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2019, 10:32:32 PM »
Some few years ago, I put an engine together to keep my truck running. It was a 360 that was a collection of parts I had stored in one corner or another of my garage. I used a cam that'd come in another parts engine---solid lifter---of uncertain antecedents. I had 25-30 used shell lifters in a bag---collected over the years. I had a couple of dozen push rods of the proper length. I had a small piece of plate glass. I checked the lifters on the plate glass, looking for that little bit of crown that should be there, and found that the first 16 were OK. I used a gob of Moroso assembly paste on each lifter and put it all together, using some of my carefully hoarded oversize NOS adjustment screws and then put the rest of it together.

It worked so good I had it in the truck for more than two years. I know the engine would go to 7K without hurting anything because I pulled a power second gear on a Trans-Am that tried to pass me on the left at a stoplight where he ran out of lane just past the intersection. There was daylight between us but I broke an axle shaft on the shift and coasted the 1/8th mile or so to where I was headed. Pontiac guy was pissed. The tattle-tale on my tach showed the overrun to 7200 with the free rev from the broken axle.

I replaced the axle that afternoon after I got the truck back home. I didn't even have to pull the pig. Used a piece of copper tubing long enough to reach the stub of the axle and ran a piece of flexy wire inside it with a 'noose' on the end. Grabbed the stub and it came right out---on about the third attempt. ;D

KS
« Last Edit: June 22, 2019, 09:17:52 PM by cammerfe »

gt350hr

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Re: New Lifters on cam. How risky?
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2019, 09:58:27 AM »
Steve Long Racing Cams. ( Formerly Babe Erson) cut the custom grind. I called him and told him what happened. He said to check to make sure they have a little crown and run the break-in oil and a container of ZDDP additive and the moly break in lube liberally on the lobes. Run it like a new cam for 12 minutes.
He mentioned what Nightmist did. They are hardened and are different than the new cores. 
By the way, I love my cats.  The big white hairball Alexander the Great likes to come out with me when I'm working. I'm not going to cook him.
He knew I was pissed. Came right in and laid down and wrapped his arms around my neck.  Been a shitty week. I found out my father has late-stage prostate cancer to go with the other B.S.
My temperament isn't my usual.

      Keith,
        As I'm sure you know , Steve does things different when it comes to lobe taper to ensure lifter rotation. I see no problem reusing the mixed up lifters now that I know he did your cam. Steve has been grinding cams for me for over 30 years. He never questioned the lobe combinations I put together.
      Randy