Ford/GM merger?...

[cjshaker]

I'm really surprised nobody has seen or brought this up. I didn't know anything about it until my Son told me about it last night. Not a done deal, but apparently it's a real possibility. I'm pretty sure this would send some forums into meltdown mode..lol

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/gm-merger-with-ford-looks-more-likely-2019-05-28

[mbrunson427]

GM could finally say that they've figured out how to make an overhead cam V8 

[Stangman]

I know that neither Ford or Chevy is doing to well but I thought that we were doing better than them. I see more GMC than Chevy yes I know same thing but without GMCI think they would be in big trouble. I think it was a big mistake shutting down the E series van. I know we had a lot of them at my new work. Now we got some of the transits. GARBAGE. The Charger and Challenger platform is kicking ass in New York and yeah some people don’t like the Dodge Rams (electrical problems,reared problems, rack problems etc.) But they are at least ten thousand less than a FOrd or GMC pickup. We need something special to come out. We’re is the Bronco and the Ranger, we need a little excitement. And it’s gotta have the retro look to it. Did you see the new Blazer it looks like balls and they are making it sound like it the next best thing instead it’s like a Buick randevous. Pontiac might be still around if it didn’t fall asleep at the wheel while everyone was coming out with the retro cars. Imagine a GTO and Firebird. And I mean a GTO not a Grand am lookalike. Geez sorry to ramble but what happened to the days of Iacocca, delorean , the dodge brothers, when cars weren’t cookie cutters. You knew when a Ford or a Pontiac was coming down the street, now they all look the same. Same reason why NASCAR isn’t the same everything looks the same. If it wasn’t for the number on the car and the sponsor you would be lost. Well that’s it for me. Arrrrg.

[chilly460]

Sad news but been coming a long time.  At least on the East Coast, look in all the parking lots and they’re primarily Japanese except for trucks and large SUVs being domestic, and that’s shifting now as well.  US makers have a poor reputation amongst normal folks, plain and simple, and people aren’t willing to risk it when dropping $30-50k on a vehicle.  I try to fight it but it’s tough, married into my wife’s Prius, just hit 110k and it hasn’t needed a single repair, zero.  My 2013 Mustang GT had a loud gear howl that eventually required a whole new rear axle assembly, tough to keep overlooking things like this, not to mention how it has to kill profits.  My 2009 Silverado had trans issues with 115k on it, people get stung like that and start looking elsewhere

[Heo]

When i first visited USA some 20 years ago i saw verry few non amerikan cars
mayby a handfull in a week. Last time a couple of years ago i saw verry few
amerikan cars mostly Challengers what happened???

[cjshaker]

While you can't pin their problems on one thing, I think Chilly460 nailed it pretty good. Honda and Toyota are killing them in car sales, reputation and resale value. Pretty much the reason for Ford and GM killing off nearly their entire car lines. But it's hard to believe Ford isn't making a good profit on cars like the Fusion, which I see a ton of out there on the roads.

Sad to say, but I'm beyond the point of caring. As cars get even more complicated and expensive, and repairs are so expensive that you can't afford to let them go beyond warranty, then I'm done with them. When there's an entire industry established around rebuilding wrecked Hondas, because resale value is still better than typical U.S. based manufacturers vehicles, even non-wrecked cars, then you have a severe problem. Still, I can't see a merger helping either one of them.

I just started work on fixing up my '70 F-350, restoring it and getting it ready to paint. By the time I'm done with it, I'll have 20k invested in a truck that will outlast and outwork anything on the market, at 1/3 the price. That $40k I saved (more, given interest on a loan) will buy me a LOT of fuel..lol

[Falcon67]

I just started work on fixing up my '70 F-350, restoring it and getting it ready to paint. By the time I'm done with it, I'll have 20k invested in a truck that will outlast and outwork anything on the market, at 1/3 the price. That $40k I saved (more, given interest on a loan) will buy me a LOT of fuel..lol

This is also my deal.  I'd love a newer crew cab DRW and may eventually find a nice late 90s or mid 2000s unit.  Until then, it's us and the old 1993 F-350.   Based on what I'd spend on even a decent used truck I could save a bunch of $$$$ by just stroking the 460 out a bit, rebuild and beef the trans and just keep on driving it.  I have been thinking about scoring a 460/E40D unit out of the wrecking yard and get it ready to swap out.  At this close to possible retirement, a $800+/mth payment for 6~7 years is not really a smart idea.  The good thing is that our 350 is in excellent shape inside and out.  Only issues are a leaking right exhaust manifold (that seals up once hot) and a bit of a drip from the rear of the pan.  That's at 108K. 

[Heo]

About expensive repairs! I was at a junkyard a few years ago
when a transporter came in with a load of cars. Most of then
with just some damage to the bumprs or what you call those
plastic junk boards front and rear. I askt the guy why the are
scraping those almost new cars with minor damages. Well the
airbags was set of and to expensive to replace then
something is not right. Or the Audi they had jumpstarted was
more expensive to fix the elctrical damages then the cost of a
new car Dont ad up in my head why building it like
that.
Your F350 is a bunch of mecanical solutions built out of steel and
Castiron. You Will never have to change some module for 400
Dollars to hopefully get running again.....only that is a LOT of gas

[Falcon67]

Exactly.  I have a scan tool and can work on the truck.  I've done the brakes, had the cat replaced with a cheaper aftermarket item and such.  Oh, and the in-tank fuel pumps need replacement.  Front sender isn't working and the check valves are passing fuel between the tanks at times.  Need to do that this off season.  Hang 11,500 lbs on the back and chug off down the road at 64 MPH LOL.

[TJ]

Perhaps the differences in perceived quality is deserved though I'm thinking some of the perceptions are thanks to foreign companies being better at bamboozling.

A big mystery for me is how we hear "Toyotas and Hondas are made in America" and then when a scary defect comes along we hear the reason is "they're made in America".  By scary defect I mean things like Toyota truck frames rotting out in just a few years or Honda airbags spontaneously exploding and sending shrapnel. 

I've had good luck with all the Fords I've owned.  I also like my one Chevy except for the fragile injectors that cost a ton to replace in its Izuzu engine.

[mbrunson427]

I've always been told this by my Dad and thought "yeah yeah, yada yada, rabble rabble", but the older I get the more truth I see in his comment..... He says if you look at Honda and Toyota owners, they are generally OK with leaving a check engine light on. A Ford/Chevy/Dodge owner is generally going to see a check engine light and take action. This different expectation of acceptable has hurt the American manufacturers over time. He also says that judging by the reviews you should be surprised to find that Toyota and Honda techs don't just change oil and brake pads  .

[Katz427]

Where this story started, who knows. Ford and GM will not join, but consolidation in the auto industry is a sure thing. Ford and VW are well along in their talks, and will see more cooperation between them. GM's old exec Bob Lutz ( who also worked at Ford and Chrysler) has been going on tour saying that the move to autonomous vehicles and electric power will ultimately force manufacturers to merge. GM's big problem is having spent $14 billion on buying back it's own stock, much of it with borrowed money that is now due to be paid back. Ford has resisted buying back it's stock since 2014.  General Motors Corporation is still mired in bankruptcy, and the company formed out of bankruptcy, ( General Motors Company ) has acquired a huge debt load, requiring most probably another bankruptcy.

[HarleyJack17]

General Motors Corporation is still mired in bankruptcy, and the company formed out of bankruptcy, ( General Motors Company ) has acquired a huge debt load, requiring most probably another bankruptcy.

I wonder if the peoples tax dollars are going to pay for this one too? Are we ever going to get paid back?  I would like to verify if and when that happens, it was supposed to...been 10 years now give or take.  I could go on but that is not the point of this topic.

I do agree the article is likely hogwash.  Why would they merge....that is the question...there has to be a gain and I do not see that from either side.
Mopar is killing the new "American" market because they started listening.  Ford has, or had, a good idea with the new Bronco, but come on, is anyone awake there....Jeep has 0 competition. Build the Bronco with solid axles, make it "modular" and you now have huge market penetration to compete where there is NO COMPETITION.  Add to that extra parts to sell, and support for the aftermarket industry who will support you.  Nope...building it on the Ranger platform...FAIL.  Another example of corporate idiocrasy. 

I don't want to see any business go belly up but something has to give in the auto industry and fast or there will be a repeat of the last crisis.  Too expensive, too complicated, too much of everything but sales and long term reliability which is vastly warranted by said prices.

Electric cars are a joke too....green they are not.

[Katz427]

One thing out of all this is Ford was the only company that paid a full pension to employees. There were buyouts, but only Ford, ( mainly William Clay Ford) was adamant that Ford owed employees that benefit. GM and Fiat cut pensions in bankruptcy. A family friend working at the GM truck plant in Canada lost about 43% of her pension as a plant supervisor. Since Chrysler Corporation is long gone and only a "brand name" for Fiat now, Fiat was against giving any money for Chrysler pension obligations, and instead received $3.5 billions from US taxpayers. Fiat is not and never has been on real solid footing. Fiat may become a "partner" in the Ford/ VW  cooperative in the future.

[Joe-JDC]

I ask how many times do you get burned before you stop going to the fire?  My last three new Fords all had issues, and Ford fought me on a lemon law that I lost when they pulled an old Ford corporate lawyer out of retirement at age 83 to come to TX to fight my case.  My wife's Avalon is nearly 9 years old, never had an issue until the battery in one tire sensor finally gave out at 8 years, replaced the car battery at 7 years, and just this month installed the first set of tires that were still good, but weathered to the point I did not want her driving on them any distance.  I would consider buying a new F-150 if they weren't $60K before all the niceties.  My Tundra just got it's first set of tires at 69,000 miles, and it has only had a battery replaced and GPS update.  So, yes, I like dependability and service when I buy anything new, especially when they cost half what a house cost a few years ago.  Joe-JDC