Mobil 1 15w-50 full synthetic for flat tappet?

[Barry_R]

I know this topic has been discussed many times. My experience has been altered in that at work or customers were having pump failures we had never seen before with the diesels. Checking the oil for additive package , we found that the zinc had been reduced, but should not have caused the failures we were seeing.
The parts were sent to metallurgist and he discovered that one of the other extreme pressure additives had a greater affinity for plating the metal surface, than the zinc. The zinc basically did nothing. This info was passed along to our oil supplier.
What does it mean? IMO forget focus on zinc and go with what has worked. Depending on the additive package the zinc content may be misleading.

Ford ran into something similar on the newer 6.7 diesels when testing on a new upgrade oil for current rules.  Sent out a TSB to tell folks not to use some of the newer oil formulations, making note of the fact that the Motorcraft diesel oil had not yet been "updated" to the newer specification and still performed fine, while updated oils were causing premature wear.  No oil upgrade for them is planned anymore - not sure who actually makes the Motorcraft oil.

Doug - I would keep running what has been working all long.  Making a change is a risk taken with no potential reward.  The key benefits of synthetics are a really low cold pour point - which does not affect a hot rod, really good extremely high temperature characteristics which are not likely for a hot rod, and extended oil change intervals while we change oil so frequently that it seem like we enjoy doing it.  As hard as you have run that engine and as many miles as it has already gone I would expect its already pretty well sorted out.  I'd concentrate on chassis and driveline - there is still plenty of ET to be gained there.

[cjshaker]

Doug - I would keep running what has been working all long.  Making a change is a risk taken with no potential reward.  The key benefits of synthetics are a really low cold pour point - which does not affect a hot rod, really good extremely high temperature characteristics which are not likely for a hot rod, and extended oil change intervals while we change oil so frequently that it seem like we enjoy doing it.  As hard as you have run that engine and as many miles as it has already gone I would expect its already pretty well sorted out.  I'd concentrate on chassis and driveline - there is still plenty of ET to be gained there.

Barry, all very valid and good points. Chassis set-up is my biggest issue still, and that's where pretty much ALL gains will come from at this point. I just don't have anyone with experience watching me and telling me which way I need to go, so it's just a guessing game as I try and follow some internet-found guidelines on the Caltracs. Of course I'm also making realizations on my own, so seat time is also key.

The 2 reasons I considered an oil change is 1: The car will go straight from warm-up to racing at the FER&R, unlike Drag Week where it's subjected to extended highway driving and the latent heat build-up that affects oil viscosity (especially in my case with 4.30 gears and no overdrive). And 2: I've seen reports about Shell dropping some of the zinc levels in their Rotella T-4, which is what I've ran in the summer months. I was using Valvoline 20w-50 during Drag Week, for the reasons I mentioned. While considering the change, I was looking at options of using a synthetic. I think I agree with you though, no reason to change horses in the middle of the stream. I may get away from the Rotella though, and just stick with a racing oil like the Valvoline VR1, which is more suited for flat tappet cams.

[cjshaker]

The parts were sent to metallurgist and he discovered that one of the other extreme pressure additives had a greater affinity for plating the metal surface, than the zinc. The zinc basically did nothing. This info was passed along to our oil supplier.
What does it mean? IMO forget focus on zinc and go with what has worked. Depending on the additive package the zinc content may be misleading.

I'll close by saying that the whole oil thing is a mystery, in large part because of the proprietary nature of the compounds.  There's a whole lot of opinions, but the only folks that really seem to have data are the oil companies, and they wrap marketing-speak around everything.

You guys are right, which is what is so frustrating about oils; you just don't know what changes they are making, or how it affects your investment. And they are not always entirely open about those changes; it seems they just have to filter down to the public over time.

[plovett]

Don't mind my real world experience.  LOL! 

[machoneman]

O/T but only a few years ago Pro Stockers started running 0W oil for less drag/more hp. After a lot of careful checking, my 2018 3.0 turbo Audi S5 requires, get this, 0-20W oil!

Hard to really sink that in but that's what it uses.

[cjshaker]

Don't mind my real world experience.  LOL! 

Paulie, I'm not discounting yours, Katz or ACHiPo's experiences, I'm just leery of "new" stuff in general..lol  I'll likely try it, but probably in something less critical, like in my Galaxie. I'm not fond of 'experimenting' with the 427, which is all original iron, and getting harder to come by.

Bob, our Honda Civic Hybrids at work use 0w-20. Stuff comes out like water. Can't say I'm too fond of it myself. I know some of the "big" racers are running thinner and thinner oil, even going so far as dropping oil pressure to near zero when they cross the finish line, all in the name of freeing up HP. Seems crazy, and definitely not for me!

[gdaddy01]

Speaking of coming out like water , I had problem with front carb flooding on the Ranchero , changed out the regulator , ended up being a hole in the bowl float , I have read and heard of this never had it happen . got it fixed and changed the oil . the oil looked like as thin as water , maybe two quarts of gas in the oil . 10w40 oil .

[wowens]

I'm no expert, but, I have heard many "experts" say that full synthetic is too slick for a solid lifter engine. Theory supposedly  is the lifters will not drag enough on the cam to rotate in the bore. I have no experience with full synthetic.

[machoneman]

Don't mind my real world experience.  LOL! 

Paulie, I'm not discounting yours, Katz or ACHiPo's experiences, I'm just leery of "new" stuff in general..lol  I'll likely try it, but probably in something less critical, like in my Galaxie. I'm not fond of 'experimenting' with the 427, which is all original iron, and getting harder to come by.

Bob, our Honda Civic Hybrids at work use 0w-20. Stuff comes out like water. Can't say I'm too fond of it myself. I know some of the "big" racers are running thinner and thinner oil, even going so far as dropping oil pressure to near zero when they cross the finish line, all in the name of freeing up HP. Seems crazy, and definitely not for me!

Thx Doug as I didn't know that. With today's tight tolerances no wonder the oil specs have radically changed.

Reminds me of a true WWII Russian V-12 engine story. After the initial run in of a T-34 tank engine, about 1/2 pound of metal coming out into the oil was normal!

[plovett]

Don't mind my real world experience.  LOL! 

Paulie, I'm not discounting yours, Katz or ACHiPo's experiences, I'm just leery of "new" stuff in general..lol  I'll likely try it, but probably in something less critical, like in my Galaxie. I'm not fond of 'experimenting' with the 427, which is all original iron, and getting harder to come by.

No worries, Doug.  It's just funny to me because I have been using it so long. If I remember right, I switched to synthetic after just the break in and maybe 300 miles.

[allrightmike]

   While not having to do with camshaft life, I believe this story will interest some of you. Back in the 80's I had a conversation with Bobby Allison who was in Michigan for the race at MIS. He would fly his plane north and do some short track races before MIS. He said he visited a man in Wisconsin who built Buick V6 nascar engines. The story goes that he tried Mobil 1 on the dyno and noticed that the oil temp. had gone down while testing the engine. He first concluded this to be the result of reduced friction. However, valve springs began to fail. These engines are dry sump designs that flood the valve springs with oil to carry the heat away. It turned out that the lower oil temps. recorded were the result of the synthetic oil not being able to transfer heat away from the valve springs as well as the conventional oil did. True or not, that is the story that I was told.

[machoneman]

   While not having to do with camshaft life, I believe this story will interest some of you. Back in the 80's I had a conversation with Bobby Allison who was in Michigan for the race at MIS. He would fly his plane north and do some short track races before MIS. He said he visited a man in Wisconsin who built Buick V6 nascar engines. The story goes that he tried Mobil 1 on the dyno and noticed that the oil temp. had gone down while testing the engine. He first concluded this to be the result of reduced friction. However, valve springs began to fail. These engines are dry sump designs that flood the valve springs with oil to carry the heat away. It turned out that the lower oil temps. recorded were the result of the synthetic oil not being able to transfer heat away from the valve springs as well as the conventional oil did. True or not, that is the story that I was told.

While I believe you heard correctly, I doubt all the 'facts' here. I can understand that syn oil may not have quite the heat dissipation quality of dino oil with the rate of change being quite small, the relationship to spring failure is very suspect. Teams in NASCAR were starting to use valve cover oilers then in an attempt to 'cover' for incipient spring weakening and failure, not the other way around (i.e. mere heat dissipation). Even in the 80's syn oil use grew to where all teams today (and for years now) exclusively use syn oil.  So, we must ask ourselves, if dino oil is 'better', why do no teams use it anymore? 

In that era as rpms climbed in all forms of auto racing, spring life was short in many cases. Race teams from drag to oval to track racing struggled with spring failures and subsequent engine destruction. Engine shops even I ran out of were bedeviled even in in the mid-to-late 70's with chronic failures across many brands.  Today we have excellent and long-lived springs for all kinds of applications but only due to heavy tech analysis, newer and better spring materials and lots of dead 'test' mules. 

[Katz427]

I don't know about the first synthetic oils, that statement from Allison may well have been true. A friend whose cousin worked ( maybe still works) for an Xfinity team has told me they use a synthetic oil because of the lower pumping loss, higher temperature without breaking down, and better heat transfer especially for valve springs. Now keep in mind were talking about 30 years difference, and a lot has changed.
Bobby Allison.told us, once." We don't call it cheating, son! Just that at the moment they know a little bit more than we do."

[67428GT500]

Kendall AKA Brad Penn AKA Penn Grade is one of the best products out there for those of us with flat tappets. I am still running the break in straight 30 wt at 400 miles. I have 80lbs cold and 40 at idle hot. Brad Penn also offers a semi-synthetic as well.
                                                                                                    -Keith

[stroked67]

VR1 20w50 hi zinc formula with a WIX 51515R filter is what i run in my 463 solid roller. Workin great so far.