Author Topic: Quench Help please  (Read 4183 times)

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Twinibeam66

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Quench Help please
« on: March 20, 2019, 04:47:32 PM »
Hey Everybody first post here but have been reading a lot on here great forum. This is my build.
390-416 CI
Barry's Heads
RPM intake
Mahle flat tops with 2 valve reliefs
Comp roller cam @50 243-251  Lift 638-643 LSA-108

My pistons are 0.021 in the hole so with a Fel-Pro 1020 head gasket that's 0.062 Quench, from what I read that's way to much ?
Was thinking of going with a cometic 0.027 head gasket to get the quench better but have heard a lot people have had trouble with them sealing ? What's the best thing to do here  ??  Also can somebody figure my compression ratio ?
How bad would it hurt me to leave it at 0.062 ?   Thanks Everybody
« Last Edit: March 20, 2019, 05:18:20 PM by Twinibeam66 »

HarleyJack17

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Re: Quench Help please
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2019, 05:05:21 PM »
I think your measurements may be off.  .21 in the hole would be some way low compression on a 390 and not typical on flat top pistons if they are 390 pistons. Unless maybe you ended up with some 360 over bore pistons but even then they are not normally that low in hole.
The 1020 Head Gasket is .041(spec) compressed.  If you can confirm your measurements it will help on getting some answers. I am sure someone will chime in but the numbers are what it will all be based off of. 

I hope that does not come off as rude, it is not intended to be, but to do the math the result will only be as good as the info that gets plugged in.

Do you have your deck height or any of the other build info?

Heo

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Re: Quench Help please
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2019, 05:07:54 PM »
I think he meant 0.021 + the 0.040 gasket for 0.061



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jayb

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Re: Quench Help please
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2019, 05:10:03 PM »
You probably mean 0.021" in the hole, right?  And the 0.027" head gaskets?  That sounds like the right combination to me.  As long as your decks are flat you should have no problem sealing with the Cometics.  If you want to hedge your bets, spray them with some Copper Coat before you install them, but if the head and deck surfaces are good, and the Cometics are new, you shouldn't need to do that.
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

Twinibeam66

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Re: Quench Help please
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2019, 05:15:54 PM »
Sorry everybody yes I meant 0.021 in the hole and 0.027  (hard day at work)  haha

Bolted to Floor

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Re: Quench Help please
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2019, 08:38:17 PM »
Try this place for a compression calculation.

http://www.wallaceracing.com/Calculators.htm
John D -- 67 Mustang 390 5 speed

My427stang

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Re: Quench Help please
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2019, 03:46:25 AM »
Edited for bad math
« Last Edit: March 22, 2019, 03:55:45 AM by My427stang »
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

blykins

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Re: Quench Help please
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2019, 04:42:15 AM »
Just gotta watch about the finish.   I've seen Cometics leak with a broach-mill surface.  Most shops do not employ that kind of milling machine anymore.   If your shop uses an insert mill, I'm sure it will be fine.  I use Cometics and Felpro MLS head gaskets on a lot of engines and don't have issues.  I'd rather have the .048" quench distance than the .060" and I would aim for that if possible. 
« Last Edit: March 21, 2019, 05:09:54 AM by blykins »
Brent Lykins
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Twinibeam66

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Re: Quench Help please
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2019, 09:12:36 AM »
Thanks everybody for the help
My427stang the bore is 4.080 and stroke is 3.98 thanks, my bad should have put more information.

Brent the finish seems to be pretty good, i bought this engine after it had all the machine work done so i don't know what they used, i will try and post a picture but not sure if you can tell much about a picture. Also really like your rocker arms they are FINE pieces Thank You

What do y'all think of the Mr Gasket head gasket they are 0.020 but they say not to use them with aluminium heads ?   

Barry_R

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Re: Quench Help please
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2019, 09:26:27 AM »
Just put it together with the .062 and run it.
The normal target for quench is .040-.060
You are getting within measurement error of your tools
If it were a smack down race engine I might chase that little bit, but for what you are doing I would run the proven, known commodity head gaskets and get that thing running.

blykins

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Re: Quench Help please
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2019, 09:29:53 AM »
Finish appears to be ok on your block.  I'd run the Cometics. 
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
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gt350hr

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Re: Quench Help please
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2019, 09:47:04 AM »
Just put it together with the .062 and run it.
The normal target for quench is .040-.060
You are getting within measurement error of your tools
If it were a smack down race engine I might chase that little bit, but for what you are doing I would run the proven, known commodity head gaskets and get that thing running.

    +1 Quench is not as important with "modern" aluminum heads. Even some iron heads aren't fussy , while others are critical to a VERY tight quench to avoid detonation. The important thing is to NOT generalize what you read into "all" engines thinking. Similar to "use the longest rod possible" which was quoted out of context from Smokey Yunick relating to a specific Chevrolet engine only.
    Randy

Twinibeam66

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Re: Quench Help please
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2019, 07:01:10 PM »
Thanks everybody.

My427stang

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Re: Quench Help please
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2019, 03:55:00 AM »
Edited again for bad math....have to get back to you guys after the flooding is over....AF has me running ragged

Bottom line though, the quench discussion should really be a movement discussion not a number discussion. It is true that a good chamber does not need as tight of a quench because you generally have a better and more purposeful churn, especially if the chamber has some sort of pad on both sides of the bore  to move the mixture around.  However, even though you can find a smidge of torque from tight quench, especially with a piston that matches your chamber, the more your fuel changes (pump gas versus a more stable mix of race gas) the more you want to have movement toward the location you want your burn.  A street engine is not a race engine, and you never know what is coming out of the pump nowadays, so having the right quench pad design for the head and a logical distance does matter.  It's not just tight versus loose, it's a decent distance and close in the right places

In your case, There is no choice that will be bad.  The quench distance at .062 at max of "good"  and there the compression is a bit lower, if you get it to min distance, you do have a little more compression and power, single digits of power and it will still be good.  The chamber has a good shape, and a flat top piston has quench pad pretty much wherever it's needed for the head
« Last Edit: March 22, 2019, 03:58:30 AM by My427stang »
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

Twinibeam66

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Re: Quench Help please
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2019, 07:49:33 AM »
My427stang Thanks for all your help and reply's really appreciate that.

TwinIbeam66