Hooker 6113 header thoughts?

[fescj428]

I am building a 69 Fairlane Cobra formal roof clone. Engine is 428CJ with street dominator intake, XE274 cam. I wasn't actually at the point of buying headers for this car, but I have the opportunity to get a set of the 6113 Super comps for a great price. I would like to get some feedback from anyone using them in a similar package as I have never used them before. I can see possible problems with fit at the oil filter/adaptor, as well as having them hang low especially on drivers side. I am not a big fan of them aesthetically, the two under and over on drivers side, and swept back similar to Mustang on pass side. In addition, the staggered collector locations. They just look kinda goofy to me. Having said that, I certainly understand that engineering and packaging headers for specific chassis is a difficult thing to do. I certainly like the FPA headers that are available, but at around $900 coated, not in the budget. I also like the Mad Dog headers that are available and think they really look nice on an FE, and are affordable at around $500. But I also realize that they hang down even lower than the Hooker's, and I'm not certain my engine warrants 2 inch primary tubes?

I trust FE power and all you folks who are a part of it implicitly with all things FE. What are your thoughts specifically with the 6113's and in general?

Thanks,
Brian N

[fryedaddy]

i have 2 sets.1 i had on 3 different 390s for over 30 years.i bought a new set for my 428 comet.i put my battery in trunk and have alu heads intake and waterpump and that was enough to raise the frontend a inch or 2.they dont drag easy,you really have to go over a big curb or bump to make them drag.im happy with the sound and performance over the years.jmo

[6667fan]

My 67 500 came with them and I hated that two in front only on the driver’s side deal. After an engine swap I went with Crites. They hang just as low, only on both sides in front of the crossmember instead of just one and they employ a slip fit collector which can leak. FPAs are nice with an auto trans, better ask someone who has run them with a stick how they managed the Z bar.  Their pipe i.d. might be good for your combo. Crites i.d. is 1-7/8”

 JMHO
JB

[Ranch]

I don't have 6113 but mine are similar in that the 5-6 tubes run down close to the filter. Even though I gad mine ceramic coated they still give off plenty of heat and I was concerned about my filter and getting my oil too hot.  So what I did was to buy a sheet of thermal barrier, it's like aluminum foil with high heat sticky back, and I put it on the back side of the filter towards the header tube.  When I replace the filter I run the new filter up and mark the where the back is, then take it off and cover the back half of the side of my filter then run it back up and on.  Does it work? I don't really know but I feel better about it....JMO
John V mentioned about angle milling the oli filter adapter to engine block make up face so that it brings the filter   more forward away from the headers, Seems a little more to it than that since you might have to drill the holes to be 90* to the face and you should respot face them.
Nice of you to post your manual I think Jay should have an archive for info like that, some kinda book shelf.  I noticed the exploded view of a 5 speed, could be handy

[fescj428]

I appreciate the responses! I think the thermal barrier idea is great and I certainly don't see why it would hurt? Actually would have to help to some degree. I am also glad that someone agree's with me on the goofy design. I love the look of an FE engine, and with the right headers, the car looks that much better. Having said that, I'm sure the 6113's perform great. Crites is an option and I did consider them because they are local to me. But, I have also heard of the potential of the slip tube leaks and kinda backed off. Clearly all headers available for the 66/69 Fairlane are a compromise in many way's, and I appreciate all of you helping me to become better informed. The FPA headers seem logical to me, but the price tag is high. I also have to say that I understand why some guy's just get frustrated and do the CJ manifolds. I'll keep looking into it! Much thanks!

[GerryP]

Bottom line up front:  I had them on my '67 Fairlane.  I took them off and put on some CJ manifolds.

They are good headers as far as making power.  No question about it.

I got fed up with the compromises with these headers.  The two low tubes on the driver's side weren't a real problem.  I scraped them a couple times, but nothing severe.  But man, just about everything was a problem with clearance.  I had to change the driver's side engine mount.  Can't get to the mount with the header in place.  Okay, how often are you going to change the mount?  Probably not again but still....  If you have power steering, the hoses need to be re-routed both at the pump and at the valve.  The steering Pitman arm hits the header and will require you to dent a tube enough to clear and give you full steering.  If you have a clutch, the lower arm will be either very close or will rub the tube.  While one tube does come within a whisker of touching the oil filter, I don't believe this is a point of concern as air is flowing around the area while the vehicle is in motion.

Yes, the collectors do exit at different points back on the chassis, but this isn't a significant issue.  It makes fabricating the exhaust a little tricky but it's really not that bad.

The passenger side header wasn't an issue at all.  It cleared the factory starter and an aftermarket mini starter I later added.

They aren't very easy to install but most of the difficulty is from how tight it is around the tubes and the shock towers.  There is usually some difficulty with all headers, so this is just the cost of doing business.  It would be the same difficulty with manifolds since the shock towers are the biggest issue and they're still there whether you do headers or manifolds.

So, I guess the question is;  Am I happy with the CJ manifolds?  For me, yes.  They are much better than headers because the manifolds addressed the issues that were concerns.  The headers do make more power and I'm talking about the amount of power you can feel in the seat of your pants.  That may be a significant point for some.

[fescj428]

GerryP, I appreciate your response very much! I was curious about the overall fit and I think you addressed that well. I don't expect things to be easy on shock tower FE car's and I've never been disappointed to that point. I realize the compromises. The Hooker headers in my 69 CJ Mustang were no fun, figured the Fairlane to be similar. My first car was a 69 Fairlane Cobra I bought back in 79 when I was 17. Loved everything about that car till I tried putting plugs in it. I got them in, but learned the hard way which included some new language!

Curious if anyone can shed some light on the Cyclone and Cragar headers that were available for these car's? If I'm not wrong, Cyclone made headers for CJ Mustang's and Fairlanes? I mean, one part number covering both car's?

I am going to keep digging around a bit to see what I can find? In the end, CJ manifolds may win?

Thanks to all!

[fryedaddy]

as far as the clearance issue goes at the oil filter,i put a aftermarket oil filter relocater adapter on mine 30+ years ago,bolted it to the driver side firewall down near the fuel line and it has never been a problem.the engine mount and other tight spots are easily fixed with a small dent in the right spot on the headers with a small hammer. compromises are a must,but thats true with most headers

[manofmerc]

On my 66 comet I went with a set from hedman . They were in the $500 price range and fit as good as possible .I had a tight spot at my transmission (c-6) no problems at the oil filter .These are a two piece design and go on a bit easier .They don't hang down really low but the drivers side is lower than the passenger side 13/4" tubes .I posted my install here 2018 probably march or February for all the details .Doug

[fryedaddy]

 on my 66 comet the hooker headers i bought 2 years ago dont hang down as far as my 30+ year old hookers do.they must have addressed the clearance problem a bit.

[Landlubberatsea]

I had these on my 68 Torino before I had the engine rebuilt. Noticed following issues with clearance when I took the engine out; Previous owner had dent a tube to make the Pitman arm able to travel all the way (manual steering so don't know anything about power steering problems) and they had also knocked off one of the boltholes/ears on the C6 (driver side) to make them fit. They were also hanging real low.
After the rebuild I put on FPA's instead. These fit like a charm and if anything they sit to high instead. I had to make an S on the exhaust pipes to get them down and in to the groove on the tranny mount. / Jan

[Ranch]

 A word of advice. If you decide to buy new and have the choice of ceramic coated or non, get the non just in case you have to make some adjustments with the hammer.  Hammers and ceramic coating don't always get along.  I'd install them, run them one season and see if you like them then drop them in the off season and have them coated if that is what you like.  Most coating shops have the ability to coat the inside also, plus you are dealing with a local. ...JMO

[fescj428]

Certainly appreciate the additional responses! I have no problem at all with FPA, but, the car goes to body and paint soon and nothing left additional in the budget at this time for headers in that price range. Last I checked they were around $650 bare and over $900 ceramic coated. And yes, whatever I end up with header wise, I will do a test fit before I have them coated. Honestly, I would rather dent or "massage" an older pair of headers if it comes to it. I've never expected headers to fit perfect, far from that in fact. A few people (friends) are pushing me hard on the CJ manifolds, and I have not totally ruled them out. But honestly, barring an older used set of headers, the FPA's come in bare under what the reproduction CJ manifolds cost.

I am still curious if anyone has any past experience with Cyclone or Cragar headers? The design on both of those is very similar and I would bet that Cyclone was making the headers for Cragar? I like the swept back design similar to the 6114 Hooker's, and again, wouldn't feel as bad adjusting used older headers to fit. Anyone have anything to share on those headers? I would certainly consider buying a set like that, as well as the repro CJ manifolds. I listed this fact in the classifieds.

Thank you all much!

[thatdarncat]

Brian, you may want to check the post about FE headers I made a few months ago, if you haven’t already. I have pictures of the old Cyclone headers on there, along with some older Hooker 6113. Here’s a link:

http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=6732.0;all

I originally bought the Cyclone brand headers ( in 1980 ) when I was putting a 427 in my ‘66 Cyclone. My friend & I didn’t notice the notation in the Cyclone headers catalog that they wouldn’t fit with a manual trans, which my Cyclone has. I did install the headers in the car and use them for breaking in the engine and some run time afterwards while I worked on the car. Before long though I bought a set of the Hooker 6113 because they would work with a manual transmission. I just looked back in my old Cyclone Headers catalog and yes it does show those headers fitting both the Fairlane & Mustang. If you read through that post I made Tom P. commented he was able to make clutch linkage work with them, so it might be possible, or Cyclone might have made a change to them somewhere in time. When I mocked those headers up for the pictures this fall I noted there were some positions with tight header bolt access, but I don’t remember right now what exactly the issues were, but I must have been able to bolt them on years ago.

Like I said, I ended up buying the Hooker 6113’s, then a few years later I ended up transferring both the 427 and the Hookers into my ‘68 Torino. I will note too, I ran 428 CJ heads on my 427 back then, so they have the same exhaust bolt pattern you have. I had no issues using the Hookers in either car, other than the oil filter issue I mention in the post I linked above. It sounds like from other comments Hooker might have addressed that in later versions, at least enough that you can get the filter on, but it’s good to note if you’re purchasing older used headers. I had no other fit issues, no tubes needed to be dimpled, nothing. I had manual steering in both of those cars, and I didn’t have any issues with steering linkage / pitman arm clearance. I used my Torino mostly for drag racing, but often took it cruising back then too, I had no issues with the front two tubes hanging too low, I was always just careful in rough parking lots or anything like that, and the car wasn’t lowered either. I would guess there are always a possibility of some fit issues with the build tolerances of the headers and the cars.

[fescj428]

Kevin, yes I did see your previous posting with the header comparison. Very informative and much appreciated! With regard to the 6113 headers, I suspect every car and every situation is different. I have absolutely no doubt that they will work, and probably well. Having said that, and less any specific fitment issues, I just think they are ugly. I think they make the car look goofy with the over under on the drivers side. But clearly that would be a compromise I would need to live with if I buy them. I liked the Cyclone headers in your previous post and they have a better look in my eye. But i've never dealt with them in any previous car's, so I default to your experience with them. My car will be limited to street use and is an automatic, so some of the concerns are a non issue by virtue of that. Given the choice, I'd probably still vote Cyclone. But, I will revisit the Hooker 6113's in an attempt to give them a fair shake. Thanks to everyone for their responses!