Carb Choices

[FElony]

Claimed NOS, posted for coloration reference. Could this finish really have stayed like this since new?

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/pts/d/mesa-1966-chevelle-ss-396-nos-holley/6772601106.html

[Drew Pojedinec]

Claimed NOS, posted for coloration reference. Could this finish really have stayed like this since new

Yes.
Even on nasty cores you can often see the original coating in places. Under the VS lid is typically a good place to look for it.

Tho typically they don’t look that great brand new

[FElony]

Claimed NOS, posted for coloration reference. Could this finish really have stayed like this since new

Yes.
Even on nasty cores you can often see the original coating in places. Under the VS lid is typically a good place to look for it.

Tho typically they don’t look that great brand new

Is the Holley refinishing service able to do this? I wonder, considering the asking price, if this is indeed NOS. My old Holleys look like they were painted on the same assembly line as Patton tanks. Maybe all those heat cycles frig the plating.

The question another person and myself have discussed is, if an enthusiast is able to dead-replicate the random coloring for concourse use, how long is going to be before it it discolors again? Replating every few years would have to get tiresome.

[Drew Pojedinec]

Ok, to answer your questions....

-Holleys refinishing service looks kinda meh in my opinion. Several months ago they outright stopped trying to do restorations.

-as far as longevity, the original chromate work didn’t need to be good. It was working with freshly poured castings. As such the skin on them was super clean and rich. To get older carbs back to that level of molecularly clean takes a ton of work. Simply put for some originals I don’t bother. For proper restorations you obviously go the distance. Still. If an impurity is below the surface and I have the skin looking right, over time it’ll oxidize and degrade in appearance. Ie a 55 year old casting has seen some stuff

[Drew Pojedinec]

Oh, let me make sure you know this first.... the castings are NOT plated.

[FElony]

Oh, let me make sure you know this first.... the castings are NOT plated.

What are they then?

Personally, I never really cared much for the original finish on Holleys. Aesthetically, they clash with virtually every component on every engine. I do have to address originality on the cars I have that demand that. Otherwise, I am fine with powder coating some color that looks better to me. Black with silver or gold hardware looks good, I think.

[Drew Pojedinec]

Chromates are conversion coatings.
Holleys are made of Zamac3 zinc alloy.
That is where the color comes from. There is no need to plate the main body or bowls etc.

This is why it’s so hard to do this restoration deal. It isn’t like I’m painting the parts, it’s like using ospho on steal to get it to turn the right shade of black

[FElony]

Chromates are conversion coatings.
Holleys are made of Zamac3 zinc alloy.
That is where the color comes from. There is no need to plate the main body or bowls etc.

This is why it’s so hard to do this restoration deal. It isn’t like I’m painting the parts, it’s like using ospho on steal to get it to turn the right shade of black

What do you think of this video?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmn94B5UUuU

[Drew Pojedinec]

I think it’s a video of a fella plating castings and sticking his ungloved hand into hexavalent chromium.

[FElony]

Freezing the video at 22:05 or thereabouts and comparing that carb to the NOS piece on Craigslist, I see a pretty decent match. The "rainbow" is apparent on both. So, semantics aside, why wouldn't I want to follow the vid sequence if I were trying my best to achieve an OEM appearance? Who is going to walk up to a car with this carb and tell the owner it doesn't look right? Trying all angles here. Not going into biz like you, but I do have a bunch of Holleys sitting here that I'm going to have to dial in with a plan at some time. I promise to wear gloves.

[Drew Pojedinec]

Video is a video. Seeing it in real life it’s different.

Do whatcha want. Just be real careful, that chloride solution will be intensely corrosive to internal passages. So remove emulsion tubes and clean the wells after plating.
Also pin gauge and blueprint the carb as plating can change hole sizes.

If the castings aren’t perfectly clean you can contaminate you chloride bath. Water wash super well as the chloride solution will spoil your chromates.

As far as what to do with your Holleys, I’d suggest selling them as cores to someone who will properly preserve them. Spending thousands of dollars, practicing on hundreds to get decent results, taking roughly 10-14 hours a carb assuming you did a decent job leaves little profit compared to just selling the cores.

I will mention that of all the restorers I know, I know of zero Holley restoration folks that plate castings.
Good luck

[FElony]

As far as what to do with your Holleys, I’d suggest selling them as cores to someone who will properly preserve them. Spending thousands of dollars, practicing on hundreds to get decent results, taking roughly 10-14 hours a carb assuming you did a decent job leaves little profit compared to just selling the cores.

Um, selling off the original carbs that belong to the legions of complete QRSMN etc cars I have doesn't make too much sense, does it? Profit, again, is for rebuilders, and does not enter the equation here. Complete muscle cars with correct parts is the game.

Buyer: Gorgeous R-code XR7 you have. Gee, what carb you got on there?
FElony: It's an Endurashine Edelbrock. It's shiny!!
Buyer: Where's the original?
FElony I sold it cheap as a core because Drew said I couldn't make a profit on it.
Buyer I'll give you $5000 less than your bottom dollar, since this carb is incorrect.
FElony Well, OK.   

I will mention that of all the restorers I know, I know of zero Holley restoration folks that plate castings.
Good luck

Well then, what's the secret? You can PM me. I won't tell. 

[Drew Pojedinec]

You said you had a bunch of carbs, not a bunch of cars, so don’t act like that. Cheapest/best thing for you to do? Get someone to restore a carb before you sell each car. I can give you suggestions on who to call for restoration work.

Or do it yourself.
There is no secret, buy the supplies, spend 16 hours a day practicing for a year or so to where you get decent, and get her done. Don’t practice on those originals as you will most likely destroy several while figuring it all out. You have your you tube videos.

Good luck.

[FElony]

OK, thanks for your help.

[Barry_R]

I think it’s a video of a fella plating castings and sticking his ungloved hand into hexavalent chromium.

I am not particularly fond of home/hand plating or dichromating. 
It tends to be hard on friends.
I actively caution those I know that do it.
An unusually high percentage of good folks I knew from Holley left this earth early from cancers that should not have been that common in guys that age.
Impossible to draw a scientific conclusion other than the fact that they all were actively involved in small batch hand plating on custom and/or prototype parts, and I cannot call any of them on the phone....