FE Power at the 2018 PRI Show

[jayb]

... I'm not trying to be negative, just looking at the big picture...

The Big Picture is that if you take this dressed-out FE to the track, you are going to get shellacked by an armada of country bumpkins with junkyard-sourced LS truck engines with eBay turbos jammed into whatever POS they could find. How utterly embarrassing. Jay's parts at their theoretical 850 hp point are going to pretty much jettison any block they are perched on into Alpha Centauri. What's needed, to be relevant today, is a competitively-priced modernized block (and lower components) that can withstand 1500+ turbo hp.

Of course, by the time you've combined all this, you'll be scary close to the cost of a 2019 Mustang GT, just in the engine. In other words, it will never happen. Better off popping out 25,000 clear distributor caps. Maybe translucent blue and red, too. Ginchy. Everybody would buy several.

FElony, quit your whining   By your standards ANY naturally aspirated FE will get shellacked by a turbo LS.  But no turbo LS is going to shellack a turbo FE, running my package and the same boost level.  Cubic inches will rule.  And as for blocks, going big on HP means an aftermarket block, regardless.  I wouldn't be afraid of putting 2000 HP into a BBM or Pond cast iron block, or a Shelby aluminum block.  Will the cost be higher for the FE?  Of course; FE stands for Freaking Expensive!  It helps keep the riff-raff out. 

By the way, if you want a clear distributor cap, buy an MSD distributor.  They use a GM cap, and you can buy the clear ones from Summit.  I ran a clear cap on my 68 Mustang all summer.

[jayb]

Anybody notice how thin Jay is getting. Sexy.

You're a sick man, Marc.  Wait 'til I tell your wife what you said.  Wait 'til I tell MY wife...

[fekbmax]

I'm with ya Jay..
In the right chassis,  the right combo, with what ever power adder one is comfortable with and chooses, and a proper tune, I can see your parts in the future,  after some good testing and massaging, pushing the ol dinosaur engine into the low 7's.. who knows, someone with the duckies and some help from the pool of FE engine gooroos they may be a 6 sec FE in the not to distant future..

[XR7]

Looks like you are having fun and getting things done in your "retirement" Jay. More power to you, keep it going! Who is the guy in the booth (picture that Kevin posted) there with you? Maybe I should know who he is but I do not.

Are your SOHC rockers available for sale? I have a friend who needs a set, maybe two. How many sets have you made?

[jayb]

That's Kurt Neighbor in the booth, Thor.  I really enjoy talking to Kurt, he is very knowledgeable and a really dedicated racer.  I learn something new from him every time we talk.

My SOHC rockers are not officially in production yet, but I've had one set on an engine and they worked very well, and have sold three other sets and kept one for myself.  I will be building more soon, some with adjusters rather than the roller tip.  You or your friend can contact me in January and I will be able to tell you when more will be available.

[FElony]

... I'm not trying to be negative, just looking at the big picture...

The Big Picture is that if you take this dressed-out FE to the track, you are going to get shellacked by an armada of country bumpkins with junkyard-sourced LS truck engines with eBay turbos jammed into whatever POS they could find. How utterly embarrassing. Jay's parts at their theoretical 850 hp point are going to pretty much jettison any block they are perched on into Alpha Centauri. What's needed, to be relevant today, is a competitively-priced modernized block (and lower components) that can withstand 1500+ turbo hp.

Of course, by the time you've combined all this, you'll be scary close to the cost of a 2019 Mustang GT, just in the engine. In other words, it will never happen. Better off popping out 25,000 clear distributor caps. Maybe translucent blue and red, too. Ginchy. Everybody would buy several.

FElony, quit your whining. 

B-b-but then I'll be even more useless than usual 

By your standards ANY naturally aspirated FE will get shellacked by a turbo LS.  But no turbo LS is going to shellack a turbo FE, running my package and the same boost level.

In theory. No evidence in Reality.

Cubic inches will rule. 

Which is why we see so many 545-inch turbo BBF's shecking turbo LS's. Oh. Wait...

And as for blocks, going big on HP means an aftermarket block, regardless.  I wouldn't be afraid of putting 2000 HP into a BBM or Pond cast iron block, or a Shelby aluminum block.

In theory. No evidence in Reality.

Will the cost be higher for the FE?  Of course; FE stands for Freaking Expensive!  It helps keep the riff-raff out. 

A blatant untruth, as I am still in the hobby. In theory. No evidence in Reality. I suggest a new t-shirt design. Jay's FE Power --- NOT for the Riff Raff. It'll be a big seller, for sure.

By the way, if you want a clear distributor cap, buy an MSD distributor.  They use a GM cap, and you can buy the clear ones from Summit.  I ran a clear cap on my 68 Mustang all summer.

Finally, some useful tech info from this forum. It's about time.

Thanks for reiterating my point, at any rate. 

[cjshaker]

On the pushrod angle, which works out to 7 degrees on this design, have you ever seen a Chrysler hemi valvetrain?  Those pushrods are angled way more than mine, and they don't seem to have any problems.  I'm not worried about the pushrod angle.

Regarding cost, have you priced out a set of CNC ported heads lately, maybe a set of Pro-ports?  You are spending a minimum of $3500 on the heads.  Then if you get a good intake, and a T&D race rocker setup, you are up in the same kind of price range as my package will be with the single 4 intake.  Add a Hogan intake to the existing parts and compare to my package with a billet intake, and my package may be LESS expensive.  Finally, I'm nearly certain that my individual runner intake manifold would be less expensive than a comparable version for an existing FE, so there you would be saving money.

Regarding the distributor, I should have been clearer about this in my original post.  A distributor can be used, you just need to have an offset distributor.  Or maybe I will build a distributor that just distributes the spark (no pickup or advance mechanism), so it can be lower and will fit, and then rely on a crank trigger for timing and the EFI system for timing control.  Lots of ways to skin that cat.  My approach would probably be individual coil packs because I like the way that setup works.  I've made a few of the oil pump drive setups for people, and have charged $100 to modify a stock distributor, so that is not an obstacle.

Finally, I would say that these pieces are certainly NOT for the average FE guy.  These are for the race guys who think an 800 HP engine is not enough.  The package should be good for 850 HP out of the box, and over 1000 HP in modified form.  I think it also could be used to make a very mildly cammed, docile 650-700 HP engine.  In that case you would rely on the heads to get you the power you need, rather than increasing the cam and compression.  So the market for these parts is limited, which is fine because I don't have the production capacity to build a whole bunch of heads, intake adapters, intakes, and rocker setups. 

I hope that better explains my rationale behind this project.  I think the key point is that this setup is not for everybody, but it does fill a hole, as I perceive it anyway, in the FE market.

Why on earth would I look at a Chrysler valvetrain? I try not to even LOOK at Chryslers 

Thanks for the answers. All good points that are valid. It's pretty obvious you're not in this for the money, or you'd be making Chrysler or GM products, not parts for the FE, so producing these parts will certainly help the FE maintain some relevancy in the modern muscle car world.

And I'd buy a shirt in a heartbeat that said "Ford FE: Keeping the riff raff out"

[hwoods]

I still have the hots for that 7 second, FE powered 1964 Fairlane that is on this forum somewhere.  I don't care what any turbo assisted LS motor does. Why do you think Pro Stock is dying out for NHRA.  They are all the same and all Chevy Camaros.  I know not an LS motor but all too much the same.

[wowens]

Boss 9's live with exaggerated pushrod angles, forget the Chrysler.

[gdaddy01]

it appears to me Jay does not have time to eat , is the reason he is getting thinner , no comment on the sexy part .  Great work Jay , thank you .

[shady]

Here you go.

[fekbmax]

I still have the hots for that 7 second, FE powered 1964 Fairlane that is on this forum somewhere.  I don't care what any turbo assisted LS motor does. Why do you think Pro Stock is dying out for NHRA.  They are all the same and all Chevy Camaros.  I know not an LS motor but all too much the same.

Someone has a 7 sec fairlane on this forum ? ?
Any links ?

[hwoods]

http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=5864.msg65661#msg65661

[Heo]

Where do i sign up for the T-shirt?
Probably if i hold a tight budget for a while
i can afford it

[RustyCrankshaft]

If Jay can bring the top end package in close to his price point I think it's a good value even if it isn't something everyone would consider for their build. I'm excited there is still development work happening on the FE's.

I find it amazing that Jay can bring this top end package to market, and if the price target is hit, it's an amazing deal that he can't be making much money on. Limited run foundry stuff is expensive to start with, plus with issues machining, bad castings, etc. you've gotta be doing it for the love of FE!

If I didn't already have more half built stuff than I can shake 2 barns at I'd pre-order a package, throw it on one of my clapped out dent-sides and go surprise all those LS pickup guys.

LS engines are easy to make power with, but it's easy and you don't have to worry too much about your tuneup because it lunch it's guts you can buy another one for 500 bucks at every local corner wrecking yard or used car lot. The reason I think even specialty stuff like Jays new parts will always have a market is not everyone is interested in the easy way out. Although I don't have anything as cool as most of the guys on this forum, I like FE's because it takes some thought to build a good one, it's not just a simple matter of ordering a list of parts from you favorite magazine article.

There is a very real, very dedicated following for engines that's aren't a turbo LS or Slopar, etc and some of them don't make near the power an FE does. Scalded Dog speed parts and similar companies still sell a LOT (comparatively) of high dollar hipo parts for A and B model Ford 4 cyl flat heads. Per HP cost is on the order of magnitudes more than Jay's new stuff. The now out of production (again) Riley 2-port head was around 5k and with supported parts that got you 100ish HP.

In 2014 I helped a friend put together a hybrid A/B and when the head got ordered I believe the batch our came out of was around the 700 unit mark and I'm SURE they're is less demand for a Riley 2 port than there is for HiPo FE's parts.