Author Topic: warm engine before starting  (Read 6537 times)

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fryedaddy

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warm engine before starting
« on: November 27, 2018, 03:30:45 PM »
i drive my 428 comet year round.in the winter i hate cranking it cold after sitting all night in freezing temps,also its slow to heat up. any suggestions on preheating the engine-oil-coolant etc before i crank it.do those dipstick oil heaters work etc.
1966 comet caliente 428 4 speed owned since 1983                                                 1973 f250 ranger xlt 360 4 speed papaw bought new

Heo

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Re: warm engine before starting
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2018, 03:42:35 PM »
Here in Sweden we use a electrical heater often put in a
coreplug hole or a separate one that you connect with
hooses. Or there is heaters that heat the coolant and
heat the inside of the car running on fuel



The defenition of a Gentleman, is a man that can play the accordion.But dont do it

427LX

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Re: warm engine before starting
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2018, 03:45:39 PM »
I use a heater that attaches in the lower radiator hose. Works really well.

TJ

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Re: warm engine before starting
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2018, 04:17:12 PM »
I've tried various methods to preheat diesel tractors so they would start down to single digits. My favorite method by far is a tank style heater (like a Zerostart 3305060) that draws cold coolant from the bottom of the block, heats it, and pushes into the top of the block.  It recirculates the same coolant over and over and heats the block faster than any other method I've tried.  Run this style of heater for 60-90 minutes and you'll actually have luke warm air from your vents the second you start your car.   

My 2nd choice (because it's 2nd fastest) is to remove a casting plug from the side of the block and install a block heater.  They're slower because their power is limited by their size.

To clarify after reading BigBlueIron's method.  There are tank style heaters that tie into the heater hoses.  I prefer the style that ties into the block drain plug and the heater hose that come out of the intake.  This focuses all heating on the block. 
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 04:24:44 PM by TJ »

BigBlueIron

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Re: warm engine before starting
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2018, 04:19:36 PM »
While not a currently an FE I plug whatever vehicle I'm driving that day in every night. Its just so much easier on everything plus use less fuel and I'm usually late for work already so I just fire it up and go. I also plug it in where ever I'm parked for more than a couple hours if available.

Skip the dipstick heater. The most efficient and economical is the type that replaces a freeze plug. Also more discreet if engine bay clutter is a concern, most have a detachable cord as well if you wanted to hide it even more. Second choice is the "tank style" which splices in your heater hoses. Third would be the in lower radiator hose. The only 3 options I would consider.

A magnet oil pan heater works too just not efficiently, although it does have the advantage to remove in the summer.

BattlestarGalactic

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Re: warm engine before starting
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2018, 04:24:12 PM »
I used to use a Kats recirculating engine heater in my '70 F100 many moons ago.   It pulled from lower block and ran up to heater hose.  Worked pretty well.  I think it had a thermostat in it?  If you plugged in warm, it didn't heat until it cooled off?  Been too many years.  I know it gave instant heat when you started the truck.
Larry

Drew Pojedinec

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Re: warm engine before starting
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2018, 04:52:08 PM »
Now I’m in the south and don’t really have this issue.   
But....
I wouldn’t worry about water temps, I worry about oil temps.
So I’d get one of those magnetic bucket heaters and heat the oil pan.

machoneman

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Re: warm engine before starting
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2018, 05:01:06 PM »
Here in not so cold Chicago, I use a stick-on Moroso oil pan heater. 24 years now and it's still going strong. Takes about 30 minutes in 35 deg. garage temps to get the oil (7 quart T-pan for my 351W engine) nice and toasty. Say 45 minutes when it's in the 20's. Great for late Fall starts and early Spring. 

https://www.amazon.com/Moroso-23996-Adhesive-External-Heating/dp/B000CON16E
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 05:02:40 PM by machoneman »
Bob Maag

TJ

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Re: warm engine before starting
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2018, 06:46:39 PM »
Now I’m in the south and don’t really have this issue.   
But....
I wouldn’t worry about water temps, I worry about oil temps.
So I’d get one of those magnetic bucket heaters and heat the oil pan.

Yep, oil gets cold enough it won't flow.  It just kinda blops. 

I honestly don't understand the physics of it but I tried 4 of the kat magnetic oil pan heaters on one of the tractors.  They made no impact on starting.  A 1000 watt tank style makes it start like summer time on a 5F winter day.

Take that FWIW, like I said I don't understand the physics and the oil pan heaters might be better for the motor.  I just wanted the things to start.

Drew Pojedinec

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Re: warm engine before starting
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2018, 07:02:01 PM »
I don’t doubt that!
Here at work I fire the engines every three hours to keep the oil warm.

If the oils below 60 it’s like turning the crank through peanut butter.
Of course this oil is like 50wt

Heo

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Re: warm engine before starting
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2018, 07:14:11 PM »
The old VW bugs had a heater you put in in the sump
there was always a buildup like a anthill with cocksed oil
on them and when that let go in to the unfiltered oil system
there was instant engine failure
If you heat the block the oil get warm to. I know, i live where
it sometimes down to 40-45 below 0 celsius an engine would not
crank with oil that temperature

Thats when it is funny to come out in the morning, and find out a cat
have played with the cabel to the heater and pulled it out >:(. And you
have a tube tire that got flat beacuse the tubes leak below 30. And when you
pour alcohol in a coffe can and make a fire under the oilpan  you see a strange
yellow light through the kitchen window you find out you had acetone
in the alcohol bottle. So the flames get to high and set fire to the fanbelts
So you have to drive to work without heating. To find out the workplace is closed
and they tried to call you but no answer beacuse you was out changing a tire or
putting out a fanbelt fire. DONT ask me how i know



The defenition of a Gentleman, is a man that can play the accordion.But dont do it

427HISS

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Re: warm engine before starting
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2018, 08:24:46 PM »
Be very safe with any heaters, my neighbor burnt down her house with the electric block heater type.

hvywrench

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Re: warm engine before starting
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2018, 08:52:38 PM »
One of my past careers was a CAT mechanic in Antarctica....I have some experience with coolant and oil heaters.
The 'cleanest' install would be the immersion heaters, or freeze plug heaters. If you can plug them in while the coolant is still warm they maintain the temps very well. If you plug them in to warm a very cold engine they take quite a while, depends on how big the engine is and the heater wattage. But they do work well, especially if you can put one on each side of the block. And the ones we used, either Katz or Zero Start, had removable cords.
I would NOT use any open-element type of oil heater, they burn and crystallize the oil, it turns to a big carboned-up mess and can't be good for the oil. It seems to heat only the oil touching the element and bake it to the element. Doubtful that a dipstick heater could A) have enough wattage to really work  and B) safely heat the oil.
Most quality oil heaters are enclosed in their own tube so the oil doesn't directly contact the heating element. Again, if you plug in while the oil is warm it is easier to keep it warm, and the warmth will migrate up the crankcase to a certain extent. These also have a thermostat option and usually require welding a bung in the pan; so you thread the heater in one bung and thread the thermostat right beside it in another bung. Probably way too complicated for just a passenger car.
The external tank-type coolant heaters work well if you can get them plumbed very low on the engine for the draw and return the hot water up high so the movement of the water goes through the entire engine.
They make some really high wattage tank heaters for diesels and they work very well. It is best to use the thermostatically controlled ones, but that increases the size of the install. They work well if you have the room and the water ports for an install. Heating the engine coolant will also help warm the intake so the fuel atomizes and burns right away for less wash-down.
I've never used the magnetic pan heaters, but if you could use one in an area where the wind won't negate the heat from it, it might work to keep the oil a bit warmer.
Putting a magnetic heater on a pan out in the open would be less effective than one on a car in the garage.
The one other heater is a battery heater. There are blanket-types that wrap around the battery and pads that the battery sits on. It is my opinion that the pad-types work a bit better than the blankets because of the direct contact with the battery, and the heat rises up through the battery. The blanket theoretically will keep the battery in a warmer environment, but they also seemed to burn out quicker (just my experience).
Having a warmer battery makes for a faster spinning engine, which is a big help on a cold diesel.
Just some of my experiences.....we would have engine coolant heaters, battery heaters, and oil heaters for the engine, trans, and hydraulic tanks of the dozers and loaders
Bill

Heo

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Re: warm engine before starting
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2018, 09:49:27 PM »
When i was in the army i Drove the Hägglunds BV 206 bandwagon
they had battery heater. And we had a torch operated heater that
you plugged in with two hoses with quick conections  with a hand
driven pump to cirkulate the water
Never had to use it though to the two big batteries with heater
it always cranked fast enough to start and was never colder than
30 deg celsius when i drove it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDFrybH-U1g



The defenition of a Gentleman, is a man that can play the accordion.But dont do it

428 GALAXIE

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Re: warm engine before starting
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2018, 02:04:49 AM »
Magnetic attached heater loses too much of it's heat to air.There are heating mat's that have greater contact area hence better effiency.
Hose heater with circulation pump will heat the oil too eventually.
Mikko