Author Topic: Torque converter Q's  (Read 11382 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

amdscooter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 307
    • View Profile
Torque converter Q's
« on: September 30, 2012, 08:02:52 PM »
Read across several articles and sites and I figured I'd give the knowledge base here a try. I'm wondering if I should swap out my stock torque converter before reinstalling my motor.. seems like the right time if necessary. Quick specs.

390 "H" code 9.5-1 compression
Block .030 over. Other than some oil mods it's stock. 
Comp 268H cam.
Stock heads (fresh rebuild) with upgraded springs, etc. from Comp cam kit.
Edelbrock Streetmaster intake.
FPA headers
Holley 625cfm that will be replaced with Holley 700cfm or better shortly.
Stock C6 with 3.00 rear end gears. I'll probably be getting a traction loc when I can budget it in.
Use. 99% street with an occasional foot to floorboard spin tires on pavement moment.

Bottom line.. do I need anything more than the stock converter? I'd hate to leave a lot of performance on the table for such an easily available and currently easily swapped item that is not a huge $$ investment. If you think I should swap it.. recommendations?

« Last Edit: September 30, 2012, 08:04:41 PM by amdscooter »

e philpott

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 933
    • View Profile
Re: Torque converter Q's
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2012, 08:10:21 PM »
no , you really don't need a converter with that combo ...BUT ... if you had around a 2200 to 2500 stall it would feel a whole lot more powerful and would run a lot quicker

amdscooter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 307
    • View Profile
Re: Torque converter Q's
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2012, 08:13:35 PM »
no , you really don't need a converter with that combo ...BUT ... if you had around a 2200 to 2500 stall it would feel a whole lot more powerful and would run a lot quicker

Thanks! Would increased heat be a concern with a 2200~2500 converter?

e philpott

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 933
    • View Profile
Re: Torque converter Q's
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2012, 08:16:41 PM »
no , I run a 5000 rpm stall on street for over 10 years , never had a heat problem , broke some bands and spraggs though

amdscooter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 307
    • View Profile
Re: Torque converter Q's
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2012, 09:44:09 PM »
no , I run a 5000 rpm stall on street for over 10 years , never had a heat problem , broke some bands and spraggs though

Doubt I'll be breakin' anything with my roughly 300+hp/400ftlb FE.. but thanks for chiming in.  ;) Any tangible differences in low end converters in the 2200~2500 range between B&M, Comp, etc??

Chad D

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 113
    • View Profile
Re: Torque converter Q's
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2012, 12:39:46 PM »
My rule of thumb is to match the cruise RPM to the stall RPM for street cars, your mileage may vary.  A good cooler certainly wouldn't hurt.

amdscooter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 307
    • View Profile
Re: Torque converter Q's
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2012, 02:49:13 PM »
My cruising RPM is between 2700~3000. I'm looking into a B&M 40412 Holeshot 2400. It's a bit under your rule... think it'd be okay?

**added**

Many of the retailers carrying the 40412 B&M converter have the following note:

Quote
Designed to fit all Ford FE and 429 engines with 1.850 in. crank pilot. Flexplate change may be required due to 11.40 in bolt pattern.

The crank pilot is dead on using my 6" caliper. I did a quick center to center check on my flexplate using a steel rule as I don't own a 12" caliper. It's roughly 11-3/8 (11.375) center to center. Think this flexplate is the intended application for this converter?
« Last Edit: October 01, 2012, 03:29:58 PM by amdscooter »

Chad D

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 113
    • View Profile
Re: Torque converter Q's
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2012, 03:23:56 PM »
My cruising RPM is between 2700~3000. I'm looking into a B&M 40412 Holeshot 2400. It's a bit under your rule... think it'd be okay?

Certainly.  As long as the cruise RPM is higher than the stall, I've never had any issues.  Depending on how much idling about you do, keep an eye on trans temps or just get a cooler.

jayb

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7436
    • View Profile
    • FE Power
Re: Torque converter Q's
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2012, 03:43:00 PM »
In fact you can go much, much higher than cruise RPM with the stall speed and still not see any signficant trans temperature issues.  I've been running 5000 and 6000 RPM converters on the street for years, and have always monitored the transmission fluid temperature in the pan.  Rarely have I seen it go more than 10 degrees higher than the coolant temperature, even on 300-400 mile trips.  At cruise, stall speed does not seem to affect trans fluid temperature. 
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

amdscooter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 307
    • View Profile
Re: Torque converter Q's
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2012, 03:50:29 PM »
In fact you can go much, much higher than cruise RPM with the stall speed and still not see any signficant trans temperature issues.  I've been running 5000 and 6000 RPM converters on the street for years, and have always monitored the transmission fluid temperature in the pan.  Rarely have I seen it go more than 10 degrees higher than the coolant temperature, even on 300-400 mile trips.  At cruise, stall speed does not seem to affect trans fluid temperature.

Good to know as I have no way to monitor the tranny temp. Rad has the standard built in cooler. Perhaps a transmission cooler at a later date if heat issues arise. I'm going to have the transmission serviced as soon as I get the Fairlane back on the street. Probably have a mild shift kit put in as well.

Looking to verify the 11.4" flex plate hole pattern ATM. 

mlcraven

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 205
    • View Profile
Re: Torque converter Q's
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2012, 08:17:28 PM »
amdscooter: I'm a rookie with FEs, C6s and the mid/late-60s Ford muscle vibe, but went through the whole performance rigmarole with my small block El Camino (former 16-sec car now running mid-12s).  My experience, in the context of your orig post and my earlier experience, is distilled below: 

1 - be brutally honest with yourself about what you want to do with the car.  Is it truly 99% street cruising and an occasional throttle stab, or are you going to feel the need to put a whuppin' on young guys with LS-powered Camaros and mod-motored Mustangs?  I only say this because it's real easy to spend hard-earned cash on shiny parts pushed by the performance magazines and end up with a crappy highway cruiser that's uncompetitive with late-model muscle.

2 - to wake things up without dropping the transmission, think about a numerically higher rear gear ratio.  Nothing wild -- do the tire diameter/gear ratio calcs to figure out what RPM you'll be doing at highway speeds and keep it reasonable.  It's an install of not much more complexity for about the same money with -- dare I say it -- a more satisfying seat-of-the-pants feel than a high(er)-stall converter on a street car.

3 - IMHO, and dollar for dollar, the three best enhancements to an automatic transmission intended for enthusiastic street use are: (1) a shift kit installed by a reputable shop (unless you feel confident doing it yourself); (2) a high-capacity deep pan with a drain plug (TCI makes a nice one for the C6), and (3) a trans temp guage plumbed into the pan.  Then consider going to a quality synthetic trans fluid and change it at least annually.

Of course, there are those who will point out that if you do have the trans out to do the things described at #3 it's an ideal opportunity to swap the converter.  Undeniably true.  But unless you plan to terrorize punks at the local strip (or do some serious trailer towing) I'd advise putting your $$$ into a rear gear.

Best regards,

Michael
 
Michael

amdscooter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 307
    • View Profile
Re: Torque converter Q's
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2012, 11:49:19 PM »
^^^ Thanks for that Michael. Honestly the only reason I'm even talking about torque converters is because I've been staring at mine daily for a month since I pulled the block out of my Fairlane. If it made sense money wise and gave me some clear advantages now would be a good time to do it. I will be that 99% cruiser with an occasional foot to floor moment. That's the way I've driven the car for 16 years now. I had a deal on a B&M Holeshot 2400 that just fell through. I'm now thinking I'll just stick with the green (as far as I know) stock converter that's in it as it has not given me any issues. I was planning on a shift kit and tranny service as soon as I get it running again. Probably traction lock with a possible gear change down the road. Honestly I wanna see what the performance is like when I get it back together as well. The new intake, cam, fresh heads, headers and 2.5 exhaust might just hold me over for a bit.

-Scott

bartlett

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 258
    • View Profile
Re: Torque converter Q's
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2012, 05:32:48 AM »
another thing to consider is the,feel of the car. Add a stall and it completly changes the cars feel. My c6 with a stock stall and a mild fe would firm shift and give a solid jolt when it shifted...

 Now with a 3500 stall and alot more hp the tranny feels like a big slush box... if you go slow/mello you can hardly tell if its shifting. there is no jolt to it at all ... also when idling and you put it in gear there is no jolt. Its real soft only a slight engine change in sound. Its like driving a tranny thats low on fluid /or a bad pump. you need to give it some gas to get it to go.

   I wish I had went with a 4 /5/6 speed manual. Im not a fan of how a stall feels. but I need it for my motor to perform. Maybe down the road I'll swap in a manual .... ;D

jayb

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7436
    • View Profile
    • FE Power
Re: Torque converter Q's
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2012, 07:20:43 AM »
Wow, that is very interesting.  I can say that with the 6000 RPM converters in my Galaxie and Shelby clone that the shifts in those transmissions are very firm and sharp even down in the 2500 RPM range.  When I've run a higher stall converter I've also always put a shift kit in the trans.  Did you do that on yours?  If you did, I find it very odd that the shifts feel so sloppy.
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

e philpott

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 933
    • View Profile
Re: Torque converter Q's
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2012, 08:49:52 AM »
I agree with Jay , my 5K stall trans would knock your teeth out on full throttle shifts if you wearing dentures ... something must be wrong with your tranny