Author Topic: Introducing Lykins Motorsports roller tip non-adjustable rocker arms....  (Read 10321 times)

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blykins

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Re: Introducing Lykins Motorsports roller tip non-adjustable rocker arms....
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2018, 05:46:03 PM »
Been at the dyno all day, so I've just had a chance to get back and take a closer look at things.  The pushrod cup is "splined" so I'm sure it's a press fit.   
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
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Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
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blykins

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Re: Introducing Lykins Motorsports roller tip non-adjustable rocker arms....
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2018, 10:47:36 AM »
Got some mockup done over the weekend.  Plenty of pushrod to rocker body clearance at .700" with a double tapered pushrod.  Geometry looks very nice as well.  With the stand height adjusted, I'm getting a small .050" wide contact pattern across the valve stem tip. 
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
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RustyCrankshaft

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Re: Introducing Lykins Motorsports roller tip non-adjustable rocker arms....
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2018, 03:10:34 AM »
Bolt on electric valves coming...


.https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/enthusiasts/the-genius-way-theyre-about-to-reinvent-the-camshaft/ar-BBPpEq2?ocid=mailsignout

Not really as new as that article makes it sound. Ship engines have been using camless technology for over a decade (like the Sulzer FLEX series of engines, although other have followed suite).

Cummins, Caterpillar and Ford have all had camless engines. It works, but so far usable RPM range is an issue. Similar to why electronic diesel engines and now DI gas engines have a similar issue at higher engine speeds. You run into latency and rate of injection issues. At least with a gas engine you can crutch the problem by running both DI and port injectors.

It would be really cool if they could actually make a camless engine live and make power at 6+.

As an interesting aside, Cummins also had a small fleet of engines that did not use any coolant a few years ago.

WConley

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Re: Introducing Lykins Motorsports roller tip non-adjustable rocker arms....
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2018, 03:18:17 PM »
I think the gold standard of camless engines is the Koenigsegg "Freevalve" design.  It uses a direct actuator instead of those funny complex mini cams.  They've built demonstration engines that rev at F-1 rpms.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/is-the-era-of-the-camless-valvetrain-finally-upon-us-technologue/
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cjshaker

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Re: Introducing Lykins Motorsports roller tip non-adjustable rocker arms....
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2018, 03:23:33 PM »
I think the gold standard of camless engines is the Koenigsegg "Freevalve" design.  It uses a direct actuator instead of those funny complex mini cams.  They've built demonstration engines that rev at F-1 rpms.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/is-the-era-of-the-camless-valvetrain-finally-upon-us-technologue/


They've also been using the design in a couple of test cars for a couple of years now. Part of the issue with making it work is how the compression ratio changes through the RPM ranges, and how the actuators can reliably deal with that, especially at upper RPM ranges. If anyone will get it to work, I think Koenigsegg will. Regardless, I don't think any of this will affect us FE guys. We're still going to need rockers like Brents.
Doug Smith


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Heo

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Re: Introducing Lykins Motorsports roller tip non-adjustable rocker arms....
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2018, 05:18:29 PM »
I think it is far into the future before someone make a freevalve conversion kit for a FE ;D
I with Doug on this that koeningsegg is the one that can make it work. I have been close
to the factory a few times but always at night time. I would like to stop by and ask if one
could get a factory tour



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cjshaker

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Re: Introducing Lykins Motorsports roller tip non-adjustable rocker arms....
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2018, 09:00:19 PM »
I think it is far into the future before someone make a freevalve conversion kit for a FE ;D
I with Doug on this that koeningsegg is the one that can make it work. I have been close
to the factory a few times but always at night time. I would like to stop by and ask if one
could get a factory tour

A factory tour would be pretty cool. Talking them into a test drive would be even cooler! Taking along the wife, dressed in that leopard skin outfit should help. ;D
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

Heo

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Re: Introducing Lykins Motorsports roller tip non-adjustable rocker arms....
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2018, 01:26:15 AM »
I think it is far into the future before someone make a freevalve conversion kit for a FE ;D
I with Doug on this that koeningsegg is the one that can make it work. I have been close
to the factory a few times but always at night time. I would like to stop by and ask if one
could get a factory tour

A factory tour would be pretty cool. Talking them into a test drive would be even cooler! Taking along the wife, dressed in that leopard skin outfit should help. ;D
  ;D You think so? ;D 



The defenition of a Gentleman, is a man that can play the accordion.But dont do it

Cyclone03

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Re: Introducing Lykins Motorsports roller tip non-adjustable rocker arms....
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2018, 11:05:47 PM »
Brent, When and how much ? I'm very happy with my non adjustable "shoe" set up with the Cam you speced me in Apr. A little more lift might be nice.
Lance H

blykins

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Re: Introducing Lykins Motorsports roller tip non-adjustable rocker arms....
« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2018, 07:24:39 AM »
Brent, When and how much ? I'm very happy with my non adjustable "shoe" set up with the Cam you speced me in Apr. A little more lift might be nice.

You can email me for pricing, or I can put an ad in the vendors' classifieds section. 

I have more sets coming after the initial set for me to inspect.   They should be here in the next week or so. 
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
Instagram:  brentlykinsmotorsports
YouTube:  Lykins Motorsports

Tobbemek

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Re: Introducing Lykins Motorsports roller tip non-adjustable rocker arms....
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2018, 05:00:25 PM »
What is the weight of them and of the OEM non adjustable?

blykins

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Re: Introducing Lykins Motorsports roller tip non-adjustable rocker arms....
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2018, 07:12:32 PM »
I weighed a couple non-adjustable factory rockers that I have here and they weigh around 99-100g. 

My rockers weigh 140g, but the bronze bushing makes up a chunk of that, as it weighs about 40g just by itself. 
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
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YouTube:  Lykins Motorsports

Tobbemek

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Re: Introducing Lykins Motorsports roller tip non-adjustable rocker arms....
« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2018, 04:39:21 AM »
I know its complicated to calculate the need of valve spring pressure of a certain combination of valve train ,cam and so fourth and how different rockers affect the math.
I have been looking fore it in over 20 years and every time i found something the math is just to complicated, way over my education :-\

“Mass is a measure of how difficult it is to get something to move in a straight line, or to change an object's straight-line motion. The more mass something has, the harder it is to start it moving, or to stop it once it starts. Similarly, the moment of inertia of an object is a measure of how difficult it is to start it spinning, or to alter an object's spinning motion. The moment of inertia depends on the mass of an object, but it also depends on how that mass is distributed relative to the axis of rotation: an object where the mass is concentrated close to the axis of rotation is easier to spin than an object of identical mass with the mass concentrated far from the axis of rotation.
The moment of inertia of an object depends on where the axis of rotation is. The moment of inertia can be found by breaking up the object into little pieces, multiplying the mass of each little piece by the square of the distance it is from the axis of rotation, and adding all these products up”

9.1.5 Valvetrain inertia force

Valvetrain inertia force is affected by component mass and valve acceleration. In the simplified single-degree-freedom valvetrain dynamics model (detailed later in Fig. 9.15), the inertia force at the valve side can be calculated as the product of the valvetrain equivalent mass and valve acceleration. The valvetrain equivalent mass usually can be calculated as follows:
9.4mVT≈mvalve+mretainer+mbridge+mspring3+mRA⋅lRA,02lRA,ValveSide2+mpushrod3fRA2

where mvalve is the valve mass, mretainer is the retainer mass, mbridge is the valve bridge mass, mspring is the valve spring mass, mpushrod is the pushrod mass, mRA is the rocker arm mass, lRA,ValveSide is the rocker arm length at the valve side, fRA is the rocker arm ratio, and lRA,0 is the radius of gyration. The effective mass of the rocker arm can be considered as the mass of the rocker arm concentrated at one point which is at a distance lRA,0 from the center of rotation, i.e., IRA = mRAlRA,02 where IRA is the moment of inertia of the rocker arm with respect to the center of rotation. Lower cam acceleration, higher stiffness, lower weight, and higher natural frequency of the valvetrain result in lower vibration amplitude of the valve acceleration. The design guideline for valvetrain inertia force control is that the design needs to achieve a precise target of valvetrain no-follow speed with an optimized gas load. Neither over-design nor under-design is acceptable for a good balance between breathing performance and valvetrain dynamics. ;D

My conclusion is to trust what reliable engine builders com up with works and there experience what docent work in particular application/combos .

blykins

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Re: Introducing Lykins Motorsports roller tip non-adjustable rocker arms....
« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2018, 06:05:30 AM »
Your first paragraph that you quoted sums it up pretty well.   Figure skaters can demonstrate this when they raise up on the fronts of their ice skates and spin on axis.  When they tuck their arms close to their bodies, they can easily spin at a higher rpm.  You can do it in an office chair as well.  Have someone spin you around with your arms out, then see how quickly you accelerate when you tuck your arms/legs in.  That's why I don't mind that a big chunk of my rocker arm mass is in the bushing.

The FE valvetrain system has several obstacles to overcome when it comes to higher rpm operation.  Factory 3/8" stem, large headed valves don't help and neither do rocker arms with the large adjusters/jam nuts hanging way out away from the shaft/rocker arm centerline. 

If you look at some other engine platforms that will easily spin to 7000-7500 with hydraulic rollers, you will see the differences:  lighter valves, lighter valve springs/retainers, and either non-adjustable rocker arms or rockers that are stud-mounted, so that the adjuster (poly-lock) is on the centerline of the rotational axis.

It's easy to see the affects of a lighter valve spring or a titanium/tool steel retainer on rpm before valve float and a lot of guys know to try and lighten the valve side up to get away from that limit.  Lightening the other side of the rocker arm is just as important. 

We have been using non-adjustable factory rockers for years but their design doesn't account for extreme valve spring pressures or extreme rpms. 
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
Instagram:  brentlykinsmotorsports
YouTube:  Lykins Motorsports