Author Topic: September 8, 2012 - The Road to Drag Week 2012  (Read 30640 times)

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jayb

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Re: September 8, 2012 - The Road to Drag Week 2012
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2012, 09:53:16 AM »
I'm all for a electronically tricked out FE but I keep going back to Joe Craine's statement about the Dominators. They could have saved a bunch of time. But enough to have made Drag Week? Who knows. I'm really bummed about this though Jay. You and your team will have to wait a year for the pay off now.  :(

There are several issues with the dominators that make them much less practical than EFI for a street car.  First, they are pretty tall compared to efi throttle bodies and would stick even farther out of the hood.  Most importantly, though, with the big cams in these cars the dominators are not really tunable down at the lower engine speeds.  I can't imagine driving around in traffic with those cams and a pair of dominator carbs; they just wouldn't allow a low enough idle speed, throttle response would be non-existent, etc.  When I ran the Mach 1 at Drag Week in 2005, the cam was much milder (266@.050"), and it was a challenge to keep the car running with a single dominator on the Victor intake.  Two carbs would be worse.  EFI makes things so much easier in that respect.  Not that it couldn't be done, but with the night and day difference between EFI and carbs on these engines, I have no desire to go back to carbs.
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

cammerfe

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Re: September 8, 2012 - The Road to Drag Week 2012
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2012, 05:16:14 PM »
Jay---

If this stuff was easy, everybody would be doing it. You are a STAR!!!

You have a giant start on next year. And just on the off chance that you haven't realized it, you are the pinnacle!

It's a pleasure to know you and read your journal.

KS

machoneman

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Re: September 8, 2012 - The Road to Drag Week 2012
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2012, 05:39:04 PM »
2x to that Ken. A Ford star with blue blood.......for sure.
Bob Maag

ToddK

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Re: September 8, 2012 - The Road to Drag Week 2012
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2012, 05:40:38 PM »
Jay, with respect to the starting issues on the Shelby, have you considered using a 16V battery? Use the full 16V for staring and then step down to 12V for normal running? Just thinking out aloud.

bluef100fe

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Re: September 8, 2012 - The Road to Drag Week 2012
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2012, 07:58:19 PM »
What a bummer jay... hope you get your cars lined out yet this fall really curious how the highriser performs on the track after the bugs are worked out good luck


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57yblock

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Re: September 8, 2012 - The Road to Drag Week 2012
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2012, 08:25:35 PM »

Hi Jay I do tend to agree with you about efi being a much more practical deal for street use, but as far as dominators drivability I use mine as an example. Being it and my brothers are the only 2 I have ever driven. I think it really ain't that bad as low speed driving and idle are pretty darn good. It used to kind of have a rought idle and mine ie a very old carb. I think it was Josh Knudsen who runs a BBF fox chassi mustang that told me to try drilling out the air bleeds on the top of the carb. (mine is to old for the removable ones) I did that just as an experiment as I am no carb guru and I can get a real decent 900 rpm idle now and as far as throttle responce on the street its not an issue as flooring it just lights up the tires. The reason I tried the carb mod was because some of the more expensize cars that I encountered over at grove creek idled much better than mine. I
 it would have been much cheaper too and quicker. On another note I sure am sorry to hrear that you guys aren't going to make it as it would have been the high point of my day to read the days results . It don't take much to make us old guys happyLOL.



I'm all for a electronically tricked out FE but I keep going back to Joe Craine's statement about the Dominators. They could have saved a bunch of time. But enough to have made Drag Week? Who knows. I'm really bummed about this though Jay. You and your team will have to wait a year for the pay off now.  :(

There are several issues with the dominators that make them much less practical than EFI for a street car.  First, they are pretty tall compared to efi throttle bodies and would stick even farther out of the hood.  Most importantly, though, with the big cams in these cars the dominators are not really tunable down at the lower engine speeds.  I can't imagine driving around in traffic with those cams and a pair of dominator carbs; they just wouldn't allow a low enough idle speed, throttle response would be non-existent, etc.  When I ran the Mach 1 at Drag Week in 2005, the cam was much milder (266@.050"), and it was a challenge to keep the car running with a single dominator on the Victor intake.  Two carbs would be worse.  EFI makes things so much easier in that respect.  Not that it couldn't be done, but with the night and day difference between EFI and carbs on these engines, I have no desire to go back to carbs.

BigNate

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Re: September 8, 2012 - The Road to Drag Week 2012
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2012, 11:29:58 PM »
Sorry to hear it Jay...  I was looking forward to reading your reports on the event.  As you said earlier - I guess it is good that you guys were able to make some good progress on the cars...
Arrrrg.... LOL  My sig line everywhere else is somewhat political... Will that get me kicked?

ScotiaFE

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Re: September 8, 2012 - The Road to Drag Week 2012
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2012, 05:52:25 AM »
That`s a shame for you and your crew. Get'em next year.
Love the CJ Scoop.

dieselgeek

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Re: September 8, 2012 - The Road to Drag Week 2012
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2012, 09:12:28 AM »
What a bummer.

If you're free I'm coming up there to figure out what's going on with your starting issues in the Shelby.  I've never seen TWO bad EMS-pros but it's possible I guess?  (Jay has a spare that also won't work).  Meanwhile, both EMS's did work when the engine was last dyno'd, yes?  I am wondering if there's a flaw in the EMS-pro wiring harness in the car.  The EMS just isn't getting the same signal seen down at the sensor with an oscilloscope...

Scott, I am free and would love to have you come up for the weekend to help figure out what is going on.  I would be the first one to point a finger at the wiring harness in the car, except that it hasn't changed from last year, and the car went down the track twice and also went down the road with this harness.  Is it possible that there is a flaw in the wiring harness that could affect only the starting?  Maybe its noisy, and that makes the car harder to start?

At the time I ran the engine on the dyno (last summer), I only had the one ems-pro.  It did give me some issues, but on the dyno I was able to crank up the battery voltage by turning the battery charger on boost.  This spun the engine faster and it seemed to start better like that; maybe it was just higher battery voltage?  FYI after our calls yesterday I did check the voltage on the Tuner Studio dashboard during cranking, and it was about 11.5 volts with the starter spinning.  That should be plenty of voltage based on our previous conversations.

Color me pretty confused on this one...

Check my email, my schedule this weekend just blew up thanks to the EMC / early Hemi guys deciding to.

But, I did do some testing late last night with an EDIS wheel and two different sensors on an EMS-pro I have here at home.  I was able to log cranking RPM down to 35-40RPM with both a Hamlin and Cherry sensor (hall sensors, Cherry required a pullup), and using a Ford VR sensor I was able to get it down around 65rpm steady cranking, with the EMS-pro identifying cranking RPM without switching to Run mode.  I use a variable speed Ryobi drill press to control RPM.   This EMS has your specific modifications to the tach inputs, but it's got a dead injector driver (it was a warranty swap for a guy who miswired his fuel injectors).  I don't think the dead driver portion of the board improves or hurts the tach input performance.

We've done similar testing with Huber and Bill Fowler in the past all with good results.   There is something in your combo that I am missing / haven't figured out.  But I will!  There are way too many people using the exact same combination not having the same problem for it to be something other than software config or hardware.  I can send you some of those guys' tunes if you want to load them and try them out?  just to see if you get cranking RPMs.

-Scott

Randy

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Re: September 8, 2012 - The Road to Drag Week 2012
« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2012, 11:42:41 AM »
That sucks jay I enjoy ready your adventures but I like them more when your cars are running better and your having a good time racing, I hope it goes a lot better for you next year.

cdmbill2

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Re: September 8, 2012 - The Road to Drag Week 2012
« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2012, 04:04:40 PM »
Jay, Scott C. told us that you guys had to pull the plug when arrived in Tulsa. Like everyone here we had followed your epic goal and thrash and hoped to see you all roll into Tulsa and give it hell. And, like everyone we were totally bummed.

This year's DW was a mother, especially the 380 mile first drive "punch in the mouth" as it was described through the mountains and goat paths of Eastern Oklahoma. I'm still feeling sleep deprived almost a week after getting back. We did our best to carry the Ford banner in your absence.

I look forward to hearing what you've planned next.

Bill


hondakilla98

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Re: September 8, 2012 - The Road to Drag Week 2012
« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2012, 07:28:52 PM »
What a great read. It's too bad you didn't make it this year, but it should be a lot easier next year with all the work you 've already put in.

thatdarncat

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Re: September 8, 2012 - The Road to Drag Week 2012
« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2012, 10:51:23 PM »
What a great read. It's too bad you didn't make it this year, but it should be a lot easier next year with all the work you 've already put in.

One would think so, problem is Jay keeps raising the bar each year LOL.
Kevin Rolph

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jayb

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Re: September 8, 2012 - The Road to Drag Week 2012
« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2012, 11:54:31 AM »
What a great read. It's too bad you didn't make it this year, but it should be a lot easier next year with all the work you 've already put in.

One would think so, problem is Jay keeps raising the bar each year LOL.

Yes, unfortunately that is one of my serious personality defects  ;D
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

65er

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Re: September 8, 2012 - The Road to Drag Week 2012
« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2012, 09:05:28 AM »
Hey Jay,  You're still working on these aren't you?  Making any progress?  I think it would be super cool if you got everything together at a casual pace and enjoyed the hell out of the cars driving the piss (and bugs) out of them for the next 11 months or so.  Drag week rolls around next year with no thrashing, you're nice and familiar with the cars and their habits and you can head out like it's just another weekday.  Except for the trailers of course.
-Wade

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