FlowKooler water pump real world data

[turbohunter]

Hi guys
My wagon has always been on the back side of the curve trying to keep the engine to run in a normal heat range. Always has been around 180 to 190 with out any load or stress but as soon as you get the rpms up or sit in traffic it just started going skyward. It has never boiled over but 220 was a pretty regular deal in traffic and heat. Scares me.
I have a four row rad and a shroud with an Ed pump. Car came that way. I’ve been running a 160 degree t stat because I wanted flow as early as possible to help postpone the rise in temp. I understand t stat logic but here in SoCal when the heat is on logic don’t mean nutin.
The system I have is optimized as far as I can tell. Though I don’t know about how good a shape the rad is in but it seems to be ok. Took it over to a shop (in car) and the owner stuck a probe down a couple tubes. They were clear.
For an experiment I bought a FlowKooler water pump. They make a good argument about having an optimized high flow impeller. My wagon will prolly never see 4K rpm and the FlowKooler works between 0 and 3k/3.5k rpm. So it was optimal for my wagon. BTW I asked about how it works for cars that turn higher rpm and they told me that it evens out with regular pump output above 3.5k.
https://www.flowkoolerwaterpumps.com/pages/why-flowkooler-hi-flow-pumps-end-overheating
Stuck it on Friday and immediately had a 20 degree drop in temp. I went out on a 109 degree day and turned on the ac. It got up to 205ish maybe 210 but it felt like the cooling system was now keeping up with the demand. Went out again today and it was about 175 in normal driving. This is indicating to me that I’ll be right where I want to be when load and/or traffic is introduced in summer weather.
What’s cool to me is now this winter I maybe have to thermostat up a bit to a 180. That’s a big difference in this system.
Oh I also replaced my 17 inch stock fan with a 19 inch fan with no clutch. Again because I sit in traffic a lot and don’t turn any rpms.
I have to go to work tomorrow. I’ll let you know if there is any odd stuff.

[blykins]

Did you change the fan at the same time?

[turbohunter]

Yes
That’s why I mentioned it. Could be worth a few degrees also.

[blykins]

My guess is that the fan did more than the water pump. 

I've got a buddy with a '67 Chevelle who recently went through the same deal.  High volume water pump, with an electric fan and a poorly designed shroud.  It would routinely hit 220-225 degrees just driving around here and it's really not that hot here.  Last week he put a factory shroud and a fan hanging off the water pump and it dropped it 20 degrees.

[My427stang]

My guess is that the fan did more than the water pump. 

I've got a buddy with a '67 Chevelle who recently went through the same deal.  High volume water pump, with an electric fan and a poorly designed shroud.  It would routinely hit 220-225 degrees just driving around here and it's really not that hot here.  Last week he put a factory shroud and a fan hanging off the water pump and it dropped it 20 degrees.

I would have to agree with you, the area on that new fan is significantly bigger and if the old one was a clutch fan, they run slower than shaft speed, even when hot.  If old one was a clutch, you increased both speed and blade size, which likely made a ton of difference.

Regardless, glad to see it worked out, a stable temp feels way better when you are sitting in traffic

[RJP]

I had the same heating problem with my 66 Galaxie 428. At low speed, heavy load like pulling a steep windy grade the engine temp would climb to 225-230 and pinging, knocking and other nasty noises would commence. No other changes except the Flowkool water pump cured the problem. Temp held steady at 180-185 on the same road, same time of day, exact same conditions. I would bet the same results using a Stewart water pump. The old pump was a AZ or Pep Boys special. Had the stamped tin impeller in it like most of the $29.95 part house pumps.

[turbohunter]

In the past I’ve added a shroud to an unshrouded engine and dropped 5 to 10 degrees. So I feel you guys on feeling the fan did a bunch. I’m not discounting the water pump though. I think it’s a big piece of the puzzle. Whole different feeling now driving the car.
I’ll let you know how it does in traffic tomorrow.

[cjshaker]

Aren't Edelbrock pumps rated for higher flow than stock? I'm also guessing the fan and shroud account for the temp difference. Air flow is everything. Was it a stock 4 or 5 blade fan? What type did you replace it with?

[chilly460]

Thanks for the info, good to know on the pump.  I run a generic parts store pump, car basically does fine in VA weather but it will creep up if I'm caught in bad traffic.  Most likely an airflow issue as I have a single 16" electric fan, but I have another FE build in progress and will need a pump so will go with a FlowKooler. 

[turbohunter]

Doug it already had a shroud. I increased the fan from a 17 inch which did not fill the shroud to a 19 inch which does fill the shroud. The new fan is a Hayden mechanical.
BTW the FlowKooler pumps are only $109 for FEs. The Ed’s are $250ish if I remember correctly. Also if you have a spent Ed pump (which I now do) it’s $260 to have them rebuilt with the high flow impeller. Odd that it’s more expensive but whatever, it’s their business. It may be worth it to me to do that for my mustang.
Another OBTW. This fan makes noise. If you have a high rpm car you’re gonna hate it. Not bad at low rpm.

[mbrunson427]

I have 3 separate stories of cooling issues with those Edelbrock pumps, got to the point where we just don't use them... I was BS'ing with a guy from Shelby Engine Company and mentioned the issues I've seen, he told me they always run a smaller pulley on the edlebrock pumps. He gave me a part number for a March pulley they use.....it's somewhere....I can find it and add it to this thread.

The last 2 engines I've done have gotten those flowkooler pumps, totally happy with them. ONE WARNING. They don't seal the rear paper gasket from the factory. No big deal, but if you don't know that, you bolt the whole engine together, start it, and it dumps antifreeze out of the back of the water pump. I might know that from experience 

[machoneman]

So, do we have agreement that cast or machined impellers, regardless of the name on the pump housing, are the primary reason why the stamped steel impellers are inferior? I mean, the cast iron or cast aluminum housings are all the same (size, shape, etc.) as are the bolt-on back plates.

Had the stamped tin impeller in it like most of the $29.95 part house pumps.
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[turbohunter]

That’s interesting about not sealing the gasket on the back of the housing. I had the tiniest little leak of coolant there then saw that I had forgotten to tighten the front bypass clamp. I’ll have to keep an eye on that.
Also I’m going to walk back my fan noise comment a bit. In the driveway I could hear it well but this morning on the way to work I couldn’t hear it at all, but I had the radio on.
Also on the way to work this morning it held a solid 175. When I got close to work I turned on the ac and it went to 185 and stayed right there. Ambient temp was 80 degrees.

[RJP]

So, do we have agreement that cast or machined impellers, regardless of the name on the pump housing, are the primary reason why the stamped steel impellers are inferior? I mean, the cast iron or cast aluminum housings are all the same (size, shape, etc.) as are the bolt-on back plates.

Had the stamped tin impeller in it like most of the $29.95 part house pumps.

[/quote]I think a few other things come into play here. Not just a machined impeller but the shape of the impeller blades, both on the intake side and the discharge side, pump to impeller clearance and the overall shape of the impeller itself. Look at it this way...Machined impeller: like a compressor wheel and housing in a turbocharger....Stamped tin impeller: Like the paddle wheel of a stern wheeler riverboat.

[machoneman]

Exactly my point. A well-made impeller would, like a turbo's wheel, be closely matched to the walls of the pump, etc. A mere stamped steel piece likely cavitates as well at certain pump speeds. Btw, who ever saw a boat engine propeller that looked like those cheapo stamped and bent-over steel impellers?   

So, do we have agreement that cast or machined impellers, regardless of the name on the pump housing, are the primary reason why the stamped steel impellers are inferior? I mean, the cast iron or cast aluminum housings are all the same (size, shape, etc.) as are the bolt-on back plates.

Had the stamped tin impeller in it like most of the $29.95 part house pumps.

I think a few other things come into play here. Not just a machined impeller but the shape of the impeller blades, both on the intake side and the discharge side, pump to impeller clearance and the overall shape of the impeller itself. Look at it this way...Machined impeller: like a compressor wheel and housing in a turbocharger....Stamped tin impeller: Like the paddle wheel of a stern wheeler riverboat.
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