Author Topic: Another magazine article featuring the FE, this time its a SOHC...  (Read 3797 times)

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westcoastgalaxie

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machoneman

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Re: Another magazine article featuring the FE, this time its a SOHC...
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2018, 11:25:14 AM »
Thx! Nice car indeed. Love the slammed look, especially the radically lowered front end...looks mean!  8)
Bob Maag

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westcoastgalaxie

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Re: Another magazine article featuring the FE, this time its a SOHC...
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2018, 01:59:39 PM »
Sweet! Thanks for posting it. That is much better detail. I found the use of hemi pistons an intresting one, but I guess it makes sense to me. Exotic parts that are semi-readily available. I assume a bit cheaper and parts which have been tested, little R&D to get reliable proven parts. Nice approach. I was disappointed that they did not turn up the wick to see what it would do. Werb, any gonks for full boost? ;D

Falcon67

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Re: Another magazine article featuring the FE, this time its a SOHC...
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2018, 03:59:55 PM »
There's a couple of bucks in that build for sure.

westcoastgalaxie

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Re: Another magazine article featuring the FE, this time its a SOHC...
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2018, 02:08:38 PM »
I was talking to my brother about this build and we got on the question of what this thing could handle for max boost. It seems they addressed most concerns, thicker cylinder walls, forged top fuel internals, thicker decks, stronger block. I questioned head clamping but from what I can see (internet searching) the 4.6 only has 10 bolts/studs per head and they can hold in the 60 psi range. So why not this cammer? Unless mod motors' fasteners drill deeper into the block and have better retention/clamping over a FE? Or did Pond address something(s) with the head studs to help? Keeping it sealed up at those boost levels aside, I have my concerns over the chain, detonation and valve train control at those levels but what are your thoughts on theoretical max boost numbers?

So theoretical aside what is the max boost folks are actually running on a FE these days? I am excluding that billet build that came out awhile back, that is a unique corner case. I can't remember specs on Jay's builds but my memory has it that I have seen folks in the 20's range with a FE. Also specify wedge vs cammer.

mbrunson427

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Re: Another magazine article featuring the FE, this time its a SOHC...
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2018, 08:54:40 AM »
I know that mod motors have head studs something like 11" long. I believe the theory is that they shouldn't distort the cylinder bores when torqued?

As far as boost potential.....I think it's more a matter of how much people have the stomach for. FE parts and especially cammer parts being more expensive is the reason you don't see FE's with 30 pounds of boost.
Mike Brunson
BrunsonPerformance.com

machoneman

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Re: Another magazine article featuring the FE, this time its a SOHC...
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2018, 10:40:58 AM »
IIRC, blown nitro cammers of yore with stock iron heads/block were at 25-30 lbs. of 6-71 GMC driven boost. Think: Ed Pink, Prudhomme, Chrisman, Nicholson, etc. HP estimates based upon e.t's ranged from 1,500-1,750 hp. Engine life was quite short as they kept breaking the bottom end of the block on 75-95% nitro loads. The 10 bolt head studs apparently were fine. It was cracks up through the cam tunnel and top of the main webs that literally split the OEM Ford iron blocks. 

Read Pink's own thoughts here: https://www.enginelabs.com/features/interviews/the-old-master-ed-pink-reflects-on-sohc-irl-and-midget-engines/

I was talking to my brother about this build and we got on the question of what this thing could handle for max boost. It seems they addressed most concerns, thicker cylinder walls, forged top fuel internals, thicker decks, stronger block. I questioned head clamping but from what I can see (internet searching) the 4.6 only has 10 bolts/studs per head and they can hold in the 60 psi range. So why not this cammer? Unless mod motors' fasteners drill deeper into the block and have better retention/clamping over a FE? Or did Pond address something(s) with the head studs to help? Keeping it sealed up at those boost levels aside, I have my concerns over the chain, detonation and valve train control at those levels but what are your thoughts on theoretical max boost numbers?

So theoretical aside what is the max boost folks are actually running on a FE these days? I am excluding that billet build that came out awhile back, that is a unique corner case. I can't remember specs on Jay's builds but my memory has it that I have seen folks in the 20's range with a FE. Also specify wedge vs cammer.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2018, 10:42:45 AM by machoneman »
Bob Maag

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Re: Another magazine article featuring the FE, this time its a SOHC...
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2018, 11:44:41 AM »
The Rodder's Journal did an article on Ed Pink back in Issue #48.  Ed talked extensively about his work with the Cammer and how it was fairly easy to push the crank out the bottom of the motor if they added a bit too much fuel or had the boost up a bit too high.




C6AE

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Re: Another magazine article featuring the FE, this time its a SOHC...
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2018, 03:27:59 PM »
Along with a thicker deck the Pond block has significantly longer (special) ARP studs that have extra thread depth into the block.

From the article...
Quote
To withstand the expected high power output, the Ford FE type Pond aluminum engine block is considerably stronger than the original cast iron Ford block.  It incorporates stronger siamese cylinders and features a .750 inch thick deck surface for greater support.
Aluminum Pond engine blocks are outfitted with spun ductile iron sleeves that Brinnell at 280. The aluminum engine block can accept a maximum bore size of 4.310-inch  with a 4.375-inch stroke crankshaft, resulting in more than 500 cubic inches. The aluminum blocks are fully machined. For the turbocharged powerplant going into Jim Ring's 1964 Ford Galaxie, Duttweiler chose to build a fully square engine combination with the bore and stroke both measuring 4.250 inches. This results in a 482ci package with thicker cylinder walls to help endure the anticipated power of the twin turbo induction system.

jayb

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Re: Another magazine article featuring the FE, this time its a SOHC...
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2018, 07:44:28 PM »
I think that motor is headed for trouble, if it gets run hard.  The reason is the block.  Don't get me wrong, I love Robert Pond's stuff, but I have one of his aluminum blocks and have gone through it several times.  Every time I take it apart, there is evidence of cap walk; lots of fretting at the main cap and block interface.  Now, the caps are super strong on that block, so I think the issue is the block itself.  If you look at the Pond aluminum block and compare it to a Shelby block, the thickness of the block under the main caps is much, much thinner on the Pond block.  It basically looks like the same design as a cast iron block in that area.  By contrast, the Shelby aluminum block is much, much thicker.  The caps on the Shelby block do not look to be as strong as Pond's caps, but I have never seen evidence of cap walk on any of my four Shelby blocks.

I also have a Pond cast iron block, and that one also has never shown evidence of cap walk.  I would be comfortable going well over 1000 HP with Pond's cast iron block.  I think the aluminum block is probably good for 700-750 HP, and I've run it at that level many times.  But the last time I had it together at the 840 HP level I had a main bearing failure.  Maybe it was unrelated to the cap walk issue, I was running over 8000 RPM, but its a concern.

If that car is not run hard, it will probably last forever.  But if the owner intends to really use that horsepower, I'd be worried...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

westcoastgalaxie

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Re: Another magazine article featuring the FE, this time its a SOHC...
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2018, 11:35:58 PM »
hey Jay, thanks for chiming in. it's nice to hear some hands on feedback on these aftermarket blocks. Pick a block of your choice, in your opinion whats the max boost it could take? At this point I assume the mains dropping or splitting is still the weak point?

cjshaker

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Re: Another magazine article featuring the FE, this time its a SOHC...
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2018, 07:56:04 AM »
I'm guessing the car will basically be a show queen, with very little, if any, WOT time. At that spending level, I'm also not sure whey they didn't just spring for a Shelby block.
Doug Smith


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jayb

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Re: Another magazine article featuring the FE, this time its a SOHC...
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2018, 10:58:43 PM »
hey Jay, thanks for chiming in. it's nice to hear some hands on feedback on these aftermarket blocks. Pick a block of your choice, in your opinion whats the max boost it could take? At this point I assume the mains dropping or splitting is still the weak point?

I have two turbos for another SOHC project, which should provide enough air for close to 2000 HP at 30 psi.  Shelby block for that one, and I'm not worried about the block.  I think a Pond cast iron block would take that power too.  I'm currently building an SOHC with a BBM block, and that's a very nice block too, but the walls aren't as thick as the Pond cast iron block, so I'm not sure it would take as much power.  I'll bet it would take a lot more than 1000 HP, though, its a stout piece.
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

57 lima bean

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Re: Another magazine article featuring the FE, this time its a SOHC...
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2018, 03:57:24 PM »
 :)
« Last Edit: July 31, 2018, 07:26:57 PM by 57 lima bean »