Author Topic: Beehive valve springs on FE Heads ??  (Read 7971 times)

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scott foxwell

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Re: Beehive valve springs on FE Heads ??
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2018, 11:35:50 AM »


You screwed up when you went and edited your post and proceeded to call us all a bunch of monkeys… You will never learn how to work well with others.
LOL...seriously? Now where did I do that?
You can never resist the temptation to make things personal, can you. How 'bout you just don't respond to my comments. EVERYONE will be better off.

blykins

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Re: Beehive valve springs on FE Heads ??
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2018, 11:40:48 AM »
Personal?  Scott, I wasn't the one who used the phrase, "monkey see, monkey do" when a few of us talked about using beehives.   I guess that was supposed to have been a compliment?

Why wasn't your initial post good enough?  This isn't Yellow Bullet, where you have to take a dig at everyone when you post. 

« Last Edit: July 06, 2018, 11:42:50 AM by blykins »
Brent Lykins
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scott foxwell

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Re: Beehive valve springs on FE Heads ??
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2018, 11:48:55 AM »


In all honesty I have never seen a broken beehive, so anybody wanting to run them can proceed with confidence.
Call AFR. They tried switching their SB Chev stuff to beehive when this was first all the rage. Guess what...you won't see any now. Too many broken spring failures. The marine industry did the same. Figured the beehive had to be a better option for endurance stuff...wrong. Ever see what happens to a marine engine when it drops a valve under power? "Manufacturers warranty" didn't like that at all. Broken springs cost them a lot of money. They learned their lesson. There is a big world out there of plenty of examples of broken beehive springs.

scott foxwell

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Re: Beehive valve springs on FE Heads ??
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2018, 11:54:23 AM »
[ll I can tell you is do a little OBJECTIVE research outside this page.
I push hyd rollers with upper .700 lift to 8000rpm...BB Chevy stuff...heavy stainless valves. I understand hyd rollers. Beehives have their place and can work, but like everything else, do your own research. My motor has .640 lift and a traditional inexpensive dual with damper and went well past 6500 on several pulls.

Scott, nothing I dislike more than a forum leg-lifting contest, but what would ever make you think I would not research, spec, and build my own?


Just going off what you said;
 I have watched our guys on this forum actually test these and start finding some RPM with hyd rollers.  These guys are getting to the point that I think we may be able to start controlling some hyd roller lobes with a bit quicker ramp, unlike only a few years ago when hydrailic rollers had a tough time meeting the RPM you turned.  Other forums, or weekend bench racers may be monkey-see/monkey-do, and likely what you were pointing out, but I wouldn't say that about the guys on this forum.
So this forum is special, and these guys are different? This is what I get tired of around here.
I was turning BB Chev hyd rollers 6500rpm 15 yrs ago when everyone said "that's impossible". That's not leg lifting, but you guys push me into corners where I feel I have to defend myself. I guess I have to build a hundred FE's to be legitimate?  ::)
Carry on. I'm done.

scott foxwell

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Re: Beehive valve springs on FE Heads ??
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2018, 11:56:25 AM »
Personal?  Scott, I wasn't the one who used the phrase, "monkey see, monkey do" when a few of us talked about using beehives.   I guess that was supposed to have been a compliment?

Why wasn't your initial post good enough?  This isn't Yellow Bullet, where you have to take a dig at everyone when you post.
Put a sock in it Brent. You know exactly what I was saying and it wasn't directed at anyone, it was a BIG generalization, mostly about the whole "beehive spring" subject. I should have known better.
But hey, if the shoe fits...  ;)

blykins

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Re: Beehive valve springs on FE Heads ??
« Reply #20 on: July 06, 2018, 12:08:05 PM »
Personal?  Scott, I wasn't the one who used the phrase, "monkey see, monkey do" when a few of us talked about using beehives.   I guess that was supposed to have been a compliment?

Why wasn't your initial post good enough?  This isn't Yellow Bullet, where you have to take a dig at everyone when you post.
Put a sock in it Brent. You know exactly what I was saying and it wasn't directed at anyone, it was a BIG generalization, mostly about the whole "beehive spring" subject. I should have known better.
But hey, if the shoe fits...  ;)

This isn't the first time your "BIG generalizations" have ruffled feathers.  Maybe you can learn from that?

Oh, BTW, the only one that backs you into corners is yourself.  No one had backed you into a corner on this thread when you, for some reason, got triggered about beehives....

Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
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jayb

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Re: Beehive valve springs on FE Heads ??
« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2018, 05:47:39 PM »
What is this, pissing contest day??  First there's FElony and cammerfe, and now you guys?  PLEASE lighten up, I don't want to lock a bunch of threads... >:( >:(
Jay Brown
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blykins

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Re: Beehive valve springs on FE Heads ??
« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2018, 06:10:04 PM »
Sorry, Jay.

I will confess that I've been in a horrible mood for the past week and a half and things have been grinding on my nerves.

On June 27th, I was cutting duct tape off of a bar of aluminum and slipped with a very sharp pocket knife.  Cut completely through a tendon on my left pointer finger.  Had surgery that day.  Was in a full arm cast until yesterday.  With engine work piling up, I found myself struggling to work with one hand.  I hunkered down and assembled (and shipped) a SBF short block last weekend.  It took me 2 days working with one hand, but I got it done.

Needless to say, it's been nothing but frustrating and my nerves have been raw because of it. 

No excuse for coming undone, but the monkey comment in conjunction with the "wizard" comment totally wiped me out of patience and being able to just turn the computer off and walking away.
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
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Barry_R

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Re: Beehive valve springs on FE Heads ??
« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2018, 07:39:19 PM »
Better your finger than your.... :o

blykins

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Re: Beehive valve springs on FE Heads ??
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2018, 07:40:09 PM »
Better your finger than your.... :o

....toe?
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
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Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
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My427stang

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Re: Beehive valve springs on FE Heads ??
« Reply #25 on: July 06, 2018, 08:31:20 PM »
Better your finger than your.... :o

I use my fingers way more often nowadays, and nowhere near an equal purpose  :'(
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FElony

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Re: Beehive valve springs on FE Heads ??
« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2018, 09:57:06 PM »
What is this, pissing contest day??  First there's FElony and cammerfe, and now you guys?  PLEASE lighten up, I don't want to lock a bunch of threads... >:( >:(

Don't look at me. I was bein' all fun and stuff for weeks until Sheffer awoke from his drug-induced stupor to play his BS game yet again. Ban or suspend him. Stop being Jeff Sessions.

plovett

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Re: Beehive valve springs on FE Heads ??
« Reply #27 on: July 06, 2018, 10:52:27 PM »
Aren't there dual conical springs?

WConley

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Re: Beehive valve springs on FE Heads ??
« Reply #28 on: July 07, 2018, 12:34:00 AM »
I'm going to stick my "toe" into the water.  (Feel better Brent!)

There's another advantage to beehives and conicals vs. standard springs.  They have built-in damping, without the added mass and heat generation of an internal damper (or second spring) rubbing on the inside.  Since the coils taper as they go up, each free coil has a different resonant frequency.  Add that to the mass savings up top and you've got a real benefit.

I've watched beehives and standard springs at work on my spin test machine.  The beehives stay in control very well through typical rpm our engines will see.  Coil surge is the real spring killer, and you just don't see it with this new stuff.

- Bill
A careful study of failure will yield the ingredients for success.

CaptCobrajet

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Re: Beehive valve springs on FE Heads ??
« Reply #29 on: July 07, 2018, 02:03:16 AM »
Ahh Mr. Conley....... back on the original subject.  I started to explain a little, but you nailed it, as usual.  I call it "the wiggles"......with conventional springs, the resonance comes and goes, like turning a switch on and off, getting worse with rpm, until  finally, the wiggle becomes violent and the spring goes out of control.  The way to prolong the enevitable used to be to add tension, and dampers, and springs wound in the opposite direction, etc. Especially with conicals, and still with dome-shaped " beehives ", there are never two coils of the spring that are upset at the same time.  The net resulting " rule of thumb" is that it takes about 15% less spring pressure to control a given combo.  This can be a wonderful thing if you have a flat tappet that would want.....say a 400 lb open pressure.  What if you can control it with 340 open instead?  Even a monkey can see the benefit.  Or what if we want a hydraulic roller hot rod to LAST awhile, dependably......rockers, shafts, pushrods, and lifters can all benefit when a 220@.050 mild hydraulic roller can operate with 300 open pressure, it's a WIN situation. 

I don't do anything to an engine anymore only because I saw someone else try it.  I'm no Einstein, and I'm no Bill Conley either, but I've done this for a long time now...seriously about 40 of my 48 years......and there are some applications where springs with varying coil diameters are always a plus.

I have used 530 open pressure on some high end flat tappets with conventional springs, that HAD to have 530.  Then, controlled the same combo to higher rpm with 470 open conicals.  It just plain works. 

No intent to be pissy with folks.......just trying to have a civil technical discussion of the original topic.  Always glad to see Mr. Conley comment.
Blair Patrick