Author Topic: Break in oil with Roller Cam and oil pressure questions  (Read 3141 times)

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Cyclone03

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Break in oil with Roller Cam and oil pressure questions
« on: April 12, 2018, 08:06:11 PM »
Does a roller cam engine require special break in oil?

I putting my  433in FE back together (broke the cam at the #4 cam bearing) with a hyd. roller cam set up,while it was apart I re ringed and bearing it .I have always run 20w50 Valvoline is there some guide for what weight oil to run? Main Bearing clearance is .003". It uses Chevy crank journals.
How does oil weight requirement relate to bearing clearance,more detail than wider = heavier please if you can.

Really some basic questions from somebody that should know,but I have just fallen into just run 20w50,might  40wt or even 30wt be better? Does anybody know?

Thank You.       
Lance H

Fordman

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Re: Break in oil with Roller Cam and oil pressure questions
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2018, 08:13:27 PM »
Not the cam but the ring seating would benefit from that oil. Of course that is only my opinion...John

stroked67

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Re: Break in oil with Roller Cam and oil pressure questions
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2018, 08:51:25 PM »
There is not a "required" oil for a roller cam break in, I have a 463 with solid roller, started it fresh with valvoline vr1 20w 50, and have used it ever since! I've been told two different things, not on this site, but that high zinc formulas is needed and also that it is not needed.  I always run the vr1 because it's high zinc and it's what the cam grinder told me to use because of the zinc. As far as the right oil for bearing clearance, the tighter the clearance the better a thinner oil would flow, and with a larger clearance a heavier oil will work.  You could throw a bottle of zinc additive in with the vr1 for s&g's!!! Good luck getting that badmofo on the road again!!!

blykins

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Re: Break in oil with Roller Cam and oil pressure questions
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2018, 05:41:16 AM »
With a .003" main bearing clearance, I would probably lean towards 20W-50 as well. 

Roller cams will do fine with any oil, but just don't use a synthetic oil for break-in.  Your ring will struggle to seat and probably won't.

Another vote for Valvoline VR1.  I like the stuff.
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scott foxwell

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Re: Break in oil with Roller Cam and oil pressure questions
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2018, 10:24:24 AM »
There are great specifically designed break in oils on the market these days and IMO are well recommended for a new engine. We run the Joe Gibbs BR series...either 30 or 40, depending on application, usually the BR30.
I see no reason to run 50wt oil of any kind these days in any street driven vehicle, even with .003" bearing clearance, but that's just me. It's old school. You're just making things hard on your oil pump. Oils have come a LONG way.
If you feel the need to run an additive these days, you're using the wrong oil. There are so many specialty oils on the market that there is an oil for every application. Most additives, especially zinc, do not blend with the oil when added. The only way zinc will blend with the oil is during the refining process. Otherwise it does nothing and goes out with the next oil change. Most oil additives are nothing more than a marketing scam. Oils are carefully formulated with balanced ingredients and in most cases, adding anything to the oil will reduce it's effectiveness.

gt350hr

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Re: Break in oil with Roller Cam and oil pressure questions
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2018, 11:10:33 AM »
+2 on VR1 40 years ago I wasn't a fan of Valvoline oil. Things change and it's now a "good" oil in my opinion. Designer "break in" oils are a waste of money while there are still oils like VR1 available . Just MY opinion though. "My " oil of choice is "green oil" whatever brand name is currently on the bottles LOL. Kendall GT1 , Brad Penn , DA , all the same to me.

Cyclone03

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Re: Break in oil with Roller Cam and oil pressure questions
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2018, 06:14:58 PM »
I have a working understanding of dynamic wedge ,how do different grades of oil effect it? How do I know I lost it without an engine tear down?

I hate to shift to oil pressure,but isn't pressure a measurement of resistance or excess? It really only tells us more oil is available,right?    If a main bearing is fully coated in oil,and the supply can maintain that coating does it matter what the input pressure is,the dynamic wedge takes over from there.
Now that said can low oil pressure tell us we have lost the ability to "fill" gaps in bearings?

sorry for side tracking my own thread.
Lance H

scott foxwell

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Re: Break in oil with Roller Cam and oil pressure questions
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2018, 10:43:59 PM »
Pressure is a measure of resistance, yes, but if we know the amount of area, then it also tells us about the volume. We need to maintain a certain amount of volume to keep things cool. Oil serves more as a coolant these days than it does a lubricant. This is why we can get away with (actually prefer) much thinner oils. I think you are correct in saying that as long as there is enough pressure to supply the bearings, the dynamic wedge does the actual work. It seems to be assumed quite often that the amount of pressure is what "supports" the crank journals and the load but that's just not so. The dynamic wedge at the bottom of the rotation where load is greatest, can have thousands of PSI of oil pressure. Pressure just means you're moving enough volume to keep damaging heat away from the expensive parts. Least that's how I understand it.

FB

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Re: Break in oil with Roller Cam and oil pressure questions
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2018, 11:42:32 AM »
Does a roller cam engine require special break in oil?

I putting my  433in FE back together (broke the cam at the #4 cam bearing) with a hyd. roller cam set up,while it was apart I re ringed and bearing it .I have always run 20w50 Valvoline is there some guide for what weight oil to run? Main Bearing clearance is .003". It uses Chevy crank journals.
How does oil weight requirement relate to bearing clearance,more detail than wider = heavier please if you can.

Really some basic questions from somebody that should know,but I have just fallen into just run 20w50,might  40wt or even 30wt be better? Does anybody know?

Thank You.     
these days i'm a little gun shy of most oils for performance use, i stick with 2 types joe gibbs and brad penn,
i use brad penn breakin 30 wt for all cam breakins, then either 20w-50 or 10w-40 of either brand, zinc and trace minerals is key to engine life, not a fan of synthetics in older style engines, i do use it in my new F150 religiously
Fred

Rory428

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Re: Break in oil with Roller Cam and oil pressure questions
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2018, 01:49:58 PM »
Another fan of Brad Penn here also. Run the Brad Penn Penngrade 10-30 for years in my flat tappet stuff, both FE and small block Fords, never any issues with it. My machinest/dyno buddy also like using the Brad penn in his own high RPM 327 Super Stocker Chevy, used to have issues hurting pushrods tips, never any problem since switching to the Brad Penn. For new flat tappet cam break in, have had good luck with either the Gibbs BR or Brad Penn oil as well.
1978 Fairmont,FE 427 with 428 crank, 4 speed Jerico best of 9.972@132.54MPH 1.29 60 foot
1985 Mustang HB 331 SB Ford, 4 speed Jerico, best of 10.29@128 MPH 1.40 60 foot.
1974 F350 race car hauler 390 NP435 4 speed
1959 Ford Meteor 2 dr sedan. 428 Cobra Jet, 4 speed Toploader. 12.54@ 108 MPH

Coreyc619

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Re: Break in oil with Roller Cam and oil pressure questions
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2018, 03:16:21 PM »
.003 main clearance doesn't really have that much to do with automatically qualifying you for 20W50 oil.  Its all about load, and rotating speed vs area of the bearing.  When one dives off into studying such things, you quickly discover a few constants surrounding a boundary layer... to condense, .003 will be just fine - even if you ran 30 weight...  You will also find, that most aftermarket builders go a little crazy with oil pressure.  Google the API standards for supplied oil pressure requirements to industrial equipment - you'll be shocked.  In your case, with a hydraulic camshaft, the extra pressure is welcomed - in my opinion.  And finally... depending on what your rods side clearanced at, making sure you have a handle on "oil control" might be a more worthwhile pursuit when considering your bearing clearance, than viscosity.

For break in, I suggest you use whatever gives you peace of mind.  Most have suggested "extra insurance" type oils - that's a hard concept to argue.  I spend more money than I want to when it comes to this part, if that helps you any.

For long term oil, if a quality oil at a good price interests you... Delo 15w40 would probably suit you well.  I have access to the oil analysis lab in the reliability shop, where I work... Delo is awfully good stuff for the price.  NOT saying its the best oil, the only oil, or that you shouldn't run Penn, Gibbs, or VR1 etc - just saying, it's a cost effective option that I have confidence in.  I run it in darn near everything I own, have been for years.  If you notice, it is one of the only mainstream manufacturers that sells their oil in sealed containers as well... that's usually a pretty good clue.

Without typing a full blown novel - one other thought to share.  You absolutely do not need synthetic oil.  You can buy it if you want it, but it won't do anything for you that a conventional wouldn't *in this application*.  Now, if you had .001 on the mains and were turning 8000, that'd be a different story. 

Good luck with your new motor, hope all goes well!