Girdle on a crossbolted block(build details)

[Fordman]

Is installing toelderics main girdle redundant to install on a crossbolted block?. Looking for opinions. Thanks for your time...John

[cjshaker]

I think it would be totally unnecessary unless it's going to be a max effort build where some sort of boost would be involved, like turbos or a supercharger.

[fekbmax]

I'd say it depends on what your intended use is, Hp, rpm, ect. Not gonna be necessary for the average street/strip build. I use them, (or my own copy) they are a nice piece. Have used them on several builds, both with and without cross bolts. Using one now on my pro-gram cross bolted full race engine now.  There's 2 ways to go with it though, bolt it on just so you can say you have a girdle on or properly square up the block, pay attention to all the details and do it right to get the full benefit of it. JMO.

[machoneman]

IIRC,some old Ford Cammer racers & builders (Kalitta, Ed Pink, maybe Robinson too) did add bolt-on girdles but of course they were blown nitro engines.

[Fordman]

My application is a 445 built for drag racing. My build is C5AE-A cross-bolted 390 block,.030, 4340 Forged 4.25 Crank, Lunati 6.700 rods, JE Pistons#271155 26cc reverse dome w/coated skirts/crowns, Mahle rings, Coated main , rod, cam bearings. My heads are C6AE-R w/CJ sized valves, I ported them, flowed 298I/197ex,74cc chamber, Chet Herbert solid roller 260/270 .685/.685 108Cl. Tunnelwedge w/660's. Billet steel stands, good shafts, HS roller rockers. 2" custom built headers. Running a Jerico 4spd/long shifter, soft lock clutch. Back-braced ford 9" Yukon through-bolt aluminum case 35 spline Gforce scalloped/lightened Detroit locker 5.14 gears(local 1/8th mile, 4.11 for the 1/4). All this going into a '66 ford custom 2dr sedan (full size). skinnys on the front,30x10.5 slicks. Full Spohnperformance control arms, airlift bag in pass coil, drag shocks. I realize the pistons are probably lower compression than optimum. When I bought them I was thinking more street than track. I may run them +.005 deck w/.43 gaskets to crutch them for a little more compression. I'm hoping for 525-575HP. Think that's possible with the parts?... I have read that the HP limitation on stock blocks is around 600HP, hence my thoughts for adding the girdle. Opinions?. Questions?...John

[fekbmax]

I personally think the girdle would be a good addition considering the Jerico and the weight of that car. Thumbs up on the Jerico by the way, (I run a old style clutchless Jerico). As I said though, the girdle really needs to be set up at the time of the block prep and in place for line bore and cylinder bore .

[e philpott]

1/2 fill Block probably wouldn't hurt at this point , did you sonic test the bores  ?

[Fordman]

I have purchased a case of moroso hard block but from what I have read they recommend waiting a month before machine work. Yes the bock has been sonic mapped and is good to 4.11 w/.100 minimum. It is currently std bore and the pistons are .030. My torque plate will be in tomorrow. I was hoping to have this together and running by mid June but was lining up machine work for the beginning of next week. Do you feel I should fill it and wait?. The block will also have 427 style screw in freeze plugs installed. I appreciate your input....John

[BattlestarGalactic]

I've run my wagon with 3/4 fill hardblock and 427 caps for years.  I can't see a reason to double up with a girdle.

[scott foxwell]

I have a C5AE-A  block that will be getting Program main caps (block has the inner bosses for cross bolting) and will get the girdle installed. Not sure where I'll go on the bore---haven't sonic checked it yet but this will be a pretty max effort pump gas deal. May also get a half fill. IMO the cross bolting and girdle do two different things and serve two different purposes.

[fekbmax]

Definitely do the block fill. I also recommend a 3/4 fill for all out racing and in my opinion hardblock is a much better fill than the moroso. I'd feel comfortable doing the machine work after 15 to 20 days with hardblock if you can keep the block somewhere that the temps stay above 60* while it cures. I'd be willing to bet the moroso would be fine after that length of time as well. Always better to take a little time and do it right while your at it. Get the water jackets as clean as possible.  You would probably be just fine without the girdle but my point is that if you choose to use one be sure to include it along with your torque plates during machining.  I think (or well I know) from my experience that a well prepared and properly machined naturally aspirated FE block will handle 600+ hp . I don't know if your planning to keep the CJ parts but if not you could sell them and add a set of heads to your combo. Ofcourse that would require a cam change depending on the heads but would be well worth it in the end. Good luck and keep us posted..

[Fordman]

I was able to drop the block off today for some preliminary work (hot tanking to get the coolant area cleaner and prepped for Hardblock(machine shop also recommended Hardblock.),It has been tanked and steelabrated previously but the water jacket area is not as clean as I would like. Machine and install 427 style freeze plugs and 1/4"npt oil gallery plugs. Torque plate comes in tomorrow. I'm only using one as they will bolt a head to the other side. I also have a marine bellhousing I'm willing to murder/modify to have something bolted to the rear as well as engine mount plates and of course the main girdle which has oil pan stud included in the kit and finally a set of water pump mounting plates. Main Girdle is ordered and on the way, will be here for boring/honing/decking. BBM heads are on the menu but depending on availability and timing to get this together I may run what I have for now. Thanks for the opinions, very appreciated....John

[Falcon67]

>I have read that the HP limitation on stock blocks is around 600HP, hence my thoughts for adding the girdle.

Not likely in this educated group, but that's a sure fire way (stating any HP limit to a stock block anything) to start a pissin' contest on FB or other web locations LOL.  4th post will be "My bother's uncle's cousin's dad has a 302 that makes 1300 HP and it's been in the car 40 years raced every weekend and drives it to work."  Followed by the standard disclaimer that the person stating such limits exit is likely under educated.

Having helped clean up parts off a race track from several known powered Fords apparently doesn't count LOL. 

The general deal is that once you cross 500 HP in a stocker you are on borrowed time.  Things vary so much it's impossible to guess.  The current Hot Rod has a "fix it" article about a 302 that needed a replacement block and was bored .040 to match the exiting rotating assembly.  I forget the stated cylinder wall thickness, but it seems way much for a 302.  Last 351C I cratered was .030 and had about .180 wall on the thrust more or less.

[plovett]

I think a girdle and crossbolts only need be used on extreme builds.  Or if you're taking a factory block into the twilight zone. 

I talked to my machinist about this years ago and he was fine with it.  It's just a lot of expense and it's likely going to be used to try to keep a factory block in one piece.  The cost/effectiveness ratio needs to be evaluated at that point.  As an aftermarket block starts to make more sense really fast at that point. 

No emipirical data here, but I think crossbolting is more effective.  Hard Blok is good, too.  I suppose you can do all three to keep a factory block spinning at extreme power levels.  I like weird ass builds like that.  But not necessarily the most logical solution.

JMO,

paulie

[plovett]

Back in 1969 they did the girdle/crossbolt block deal on funny cars at 2500 hp.  I think it kept the factory blocks alive a little longer.  But they still broke.