Author Topic: Way off topic, but need AC electric motor knowledge to be a hero  (Read 2098 times)

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My427stang

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Way off topic, but need AC electric motor knowledge to be a hero
« on: February 19, 2018, 01:47:05 PM »
Jay, or whoever else knows AC motors.

I have a relatively high end vacuum cleaner that I am quite certain needs a circuit board after a bound up brush and resulting overheat.  Troubleshooting online and what I see leads me to replace a small circuit board because the thermal switch overheated, but before I spend the money I want to make sure the thermal circuit did it's job and the motor is still good. 

- Motor says its 120V AC on the side of the body
- Control board has two labeled wires, approx 14 gauge going to motor.  Those wires unplug from the board, one is black, one is white
- The black one connects to "Motor L"  and the white one connects to "Motor N", both wires look normal, no burning or melting
- Can I directly connect two wires (all burden of safety on me) into a 120V source?  I'd like to verify the motor runs
- Also I checked continuity on the armature, no continuity from shaft to where the brushes ride, but there is continuity across both sections of the armature

If I can plug those two wires into a surge protector or extension cord and run the motor alone, then I know I won't run the risk of burning another board

FYI - I can see a portion of the board that feeds one leg of the motor circuit that got hot. It's not labelled thermal protection, but it has one feed in and a big heat sink with what looks to be the thermal protection, when I checked continuity in and out of that little ?diode? or whatever it is, it's open. So the evidence of heat and the open circuit on what makes sense as a thermal switch makes me feel good, as well as the wife finding a stuck brush that caused it, I just want to make sure I don't burn an 80 dollar circuit board because the motor shorted when it bound up

Thanks in advance
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 01:51:41 PM by My427stang »
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Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

jmlay

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Re: Way off topic, but need AC electric motor knowledge to be a hero
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2018, 01:53:19 PM »
just guessing as I have not see below the board, if you can see heat discoloration it may be a burnt restor. Can you post a picture of the board. I bet you can simply replace the component, restor or thermostat and be good to go.

Couple of dollars vs lots of dollars for the board.
Mike

My427stang

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Re: Way off topic, but need AC electric motor knowledge to be a hero
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2018, 02:14:04 PM »
just guessing as I have not see below the board, if you can see heat discoloration it may be a burnt restor. Can you post a picture of the board. I bet you can simply replace the component, restor or thermostat and be good to go.

Couple of dollars vs lots of dollars for the board.

Sure, first picture is from top, you can see where it got hot.  Second picture shows the heat sink with removable thermistor/resistor, whatever it would be called.  Both pictures show the same area. 



« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 02:16:50 PM by My427stang »
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

My427stang

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Re: Way off topic, but need AC electric motor knowledge to be a hero
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2018, 02:25:11 PM »
Part number is BTA16-600BW

Seems easy enough to get on the net, how tough to resolder to board?  Special tools needed?
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

My427stang

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Re: Way off topic, but need AC electric motor knowledge to be a hero
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2018, 03:22:56 PM »
UPDATE: As I typed my response, looked up how a brushed AC motor works and looked at my pictures, there was no doubt how to wire the motor.

So I took my handy-dandy power pen and hooked black to line and white to neutral and it ran perfectly.

Although it seems like just replacing the resistor is the cheapest, I can buy a combination pack of switch and circuit board that seems to make sense and would be pretty easy, if not more expensive.

If I could find one of those locally, I'd likely try to repair it, but I don't even know where to start.
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

shady

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Re: Way off topic, but need AC electric motor knowledge to be a hero
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2018, 03:48:48 PM »
looks like a SCR (silicon controlled rectifier). They are probably using it to turn the motor on and off instead of a switch or relay that would not last long with the high current draw of the motor. Also they may use it to control the speed of the motor as the load changes from carpet to linoleum and such. vacuums used to be a switch & a motor, now like everything else, high tech. Just buy the board if you can. That board is double sided printed. If you have no soldering skills it is real easy to lift the copper circuit foil right off the board & make a mess out of it.
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My427stang

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Re: Way off topic, but need AC electric motor knowledge to be a hero
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2018, 04:12:15 PM »
looks like a SCR (silicon controlled rectifier). They are probably using it to turn the motor on and off instead of a switch or relay that would not last long with the high current draw of the motor. Also they may use it to control the speed of the motor as the load changes from carpet to linoleum and such. vacuums used to be a switch & a motor, now like everything else, high tech. Just buy the board if you can. That board is double sided printed. If you have no soldering skills it is real easy to lift the copper circuit foil right off the board & make a mess out of it.

I have sweat plenty of big things together, but never did any circuit board stuff.  I just ordered the parts, it wasn't too bad after searching around, and the wife will have a running vacuum cleaner in a couple days.  The big thing is the motor ran, that is what I wanted to accomplish to be sure I wouldn't burn another
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

jmlay

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Re: Way off topic, but need AC electric motor knowledge to be a hero
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2018, 06:12:02 PM »
The component is a triac. While I have never played with this component this guide shows how to test. I would recommend un soldering first but likely may be tested incircut. A soldering iron, optionally a solder sucker or some solder wick may be useful. Heat until solder is molten and pull the leg out, repeat.

http://www.completepowerelectronics.com/how-to-test-triac-with-multimeter/
Mike