Author Topic: Since 1962.....  (Read 4143 times)

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fe-starliner

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Since 1962.....
« on: January 16, 2018, 12:28:29 PM »
when I bought my first Ford, '48 two door, I've always been 100% loyal to Ford Motor Co.  After watching this video my admiration for Ford has been tarnished a little.  I've often wondered why Bob Glidden walked away from drag racing in 1997. Toward the end of this video he explains why.  After all he had done for the Ford brand the way they treated him is shameful.  And yet I have never heard him say a bad thing about Ford.  Maybe in private to his family/friends he did.....but never in public. At least to my knowledge.  What a class act of a man.  SHAME ON FORD! Or maybe I should say "Shame on the 1997 Ford Motor Co.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ciu1DNRhOsc
1960 Starliner, 406-6V, TKO-600, 4.11 9"
1961 Starliner, 427 4V, SS700 5 speed, 4.56 9"
1968 F-100 SWB, 352 4V, C6, 3.25 9"
2012 Mustang, 226" V6, 6 speed auto, 3.31 8.8"

e philpott

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Re: Since 1962.....
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2018, 01:18:48 PM »
Welcome to the World of Pro Stock Drag Racing , Warren Johnson didn't get much either from GM . Wayne County , Darrel Alderman and the recently retired Roy Johnson's Racing won't get much from Dodge either , Corporate Sponsors can do what the want , be glad Ford helped as long as they did , NHRA was letting to many things change like the Olds racing engine that was never installed in any vehicle for one example , NHRA Pro Stock is dying , now you can put any manufactor's engine in any Make  body ( GM engine in Ford or Mopar body )

Katz427

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Re: Since 1962.....
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2018, 01:39:02 PM »
My take based on some things I was told by people involved at the time. One was the NOS debacle. According to people who knew the situation at the time, there were several teams using NOS. Darrell Alderman showed Bob's sons how it was being done, and Rusty and Billy even tried it on the Winnebago sponsor car they were running. Someone at Ford went to NHRA and brought forth Bob's accusation's of NOS being used by certain competitors. The NHRA vehemently denied anything was going on and said some rather unkind things about Bob.
Of course this played out with Steve Schmidt's car being caught with a hidden NOS system and NHRA looking like fools with egg on their face. Then a couple other cars had their shop broken into and everything destroyed. Never could produce the previous performance of the cars and then left the scene. Ford was justly upset with the NHRA when the truth came out. Bob was correct in his accusations of NOS use.
The whole episode really turned Ford  corporate off to NHRA and Bob was a victim of the aftermath.
It was not until the Ford tie up with John Force and a different group in charge of the NHRA and new people in Ford racing that there was a change in policy.
As a side note to all this Wanye Torkelson said Warren Johnson had a good laugh in the end when everything finally was exposed, as he knew who was using the NOS all along and it confirmed his suspicion s.
In the end Bob got caught in corporate decision making. He was a great racer, a very smart racer and engine builder. Ford corporate  appreciated what Bob had accomplished, but got tired of the NHRA.

Katz427

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Re: Since 1962.....
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2018, 01:59:39 PM »
The introduction of the DRCE one size competition engine by GM took out a lot of teams and hurt the less funded teams.
At the time Motorcraft was sponsoring Bob to the tune of about $1 million a year.
Everyone was in search of sponsorship and dollars.
For Ford the problem became that NHRA was now requiring and engine platform that was not a production piece, but a special one off. It didn't take much vision to see that the costs were going to escalate dramatically, and only very well financed teams would be able to compete.
As a side to this I saw a deal on Erica Enders, and they were talking to her father. He admitted he a provided $ 23 million in her quest in Pro Stock.

turbohunter

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Re: Since 1962.....
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2018, 02:05:18 PM »
He admitted he a provided $ 23 million in her quest in Pro Stock.
AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH :o
Marc
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e philpott

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Re: Since 1962.....
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2018, 03:30:33 PM »
Speaking of Erica Enders , she will be racing Pro Mod in 2018 .... back to NHRA , Dick Maskin also had about 5 different deck heights for GM Block ( none of which was factory dimensions) very important on Carburetor engine for runner length and RPM range intended , tough to beat with out some kind of willing factory support

Katz427

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Re: Since 1962.....
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2018, 04:11:11 PM »
We saw Warren Johnson at Englishtown a while back and he told us that he had spent something like $200k that seasonings just on shocks. He also made note of the fewer fans in the bleachers.
 Also I remember talking with Frank Iaconio at Maple Grove raceway. He had the TBird then. He said Ford had asked Glidden to possibly give some guidance  to Frank on the peculiarities of the Boss engine. Of course that did not happen.  Frank said that to him the Boss engine was like working on a Japanese motorcycle. Frank told us "Bob understands them, I don't, and nobody at Ford knows what Bob is doing either."
If you remember Ford even hired Larry Widmer to develop the boss head for Pro stock. Larry was a very smart aerospace engineer doing some cutting edge port and combustion chamber development. The plan was for Ford to offer a competitive boss motor through SVT (at that time) along with a complete chassis.  The car  and engine was tested and would have very definitely been competitive in Pro Stock. The program was cancelled, and Larry Widmer claimed Bob was the one who got it cancelled. This kind of killed Ford's idea for a competitive reasonably affordable Pro stock package.
This left Motorcraft with Bob Glidden and Ricky Smith in mountain motor.

fe-starliner

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Re: Since 1962.....
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2018, 06:04:27 PM »
It seems incomprehensible that Darrell Alderman would confess to the sons of one of his biggest competitors that he was using NOS.  Bob did say his sons built a second Pro Stock car, probably the Winnebago car, to prove to him that NOS could be hidden without NHRA finding it.  Bob couldn't find it either, then his sons showed them where it was and Bob then went to NHRA.
1960 Starliner, 406-6V, TKO-600, 4.11 9"
1961 Starliner, 427 4V, SS700 5 speed, 4.56 9"
1968 F-100 SWB, 352 4V, C6, 3.25 9"
2012 Mustang, 226" V6, 6 speed auto, 3.31 8.8"

Katz427

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Re: Since 1962.....
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2018, 06:05:11 PM »
Another deal in all this was Bob Glidden and what the NHRA really thought of him. At first it seemed like the NHRA was against Ford with the constant changes in rules and weight breaks. When Glidden went to the Plymouth deal, I think he felt "great" now the NHRA would leave him alone. However that did not last long and soon they were adding weight to the Plymouth. From a person who knew Billy Glidden at the time, he said Bob then figured it was HIM. The NHRA was handicapping him.
So he climbed back in the Fairmont and went on a tear.
Of course Ford was not officially in racing or promoting racing at that time. I'm sure Glidden got some "back door" help with parts, like Bud Moore and the Wood brothers.
I talked to John Lingenfelter when he was running the Cleveland in his Monza probably at Englishtown. He was bemoaning the fact that the NHRA was adding another weight penalty to the Cleveland engined Monza. He later told one of the racing paper scribes that he felt the NHRA just did not like him running a Ford. At the time John claimed his Cleveland ford was making 70 hp more than his best SBC engine.

Katz427

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Re: Since 1962.....
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2018, 06:16:49 PM »
I got this year's ago from a fellow who knew Alderman, and had a shop near the Wayne County boy's shop. He told me Alderman had tremendous respect for Bob and knew the whole deal was "eating Bob up". So Alderman approached the boys and told them what was going down.
My own thoughts were that the NHRA had suspicions but did not want to say anything about it, then the Mike Schmidt deal brought it all out in the open.
It was certainly a sore subject for a long time with the people involved.

Katz427

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Re: Since 1962.....
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2018, 12:12:06 AM »
Starliner you are correct the second car was the Winnebago sponsored​ Probe that Billy and Rusty ran. It also got into the Holley 6 second Club, which I was told got Bob very suspicious to what they were doing. Then they showed Bob the nitrous setup. Torkelson also told that story, and he said Bob was not happy at all.
But when one looks back there is one person who stands out, Michael Kranefuss.
Michael engineered Ford's return to Motorsports and was quoted in the press as a big fan of what the Glidden family had accomplished. When Michael left Ford in 1993 the emphasis on racing shifted even more to NASCAR, TransAm, and oval racing. IMO Bob got pushed out for the increase in oval racing budget. Oval track racing was seen as a better investment, and that thinking prevailed​ until the alliance with John Force.

machoneman

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Re: Since 1962.....
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2018, 06:38:08 AM »
Yes, I read that Ford re-aligned their racing efforts elsewhere, including FIA/European long distance racing as well. Bob was lost in the shuffle for that reason as well as another. Without the up and coming Pro Stock 2-team effort, Bob's one car team was dead meat as the two car teams, a much more pricey deal, allowed more on-track clutch testing in qualifying, an all important consideration. Too bad as I have always believed that if Bob and Billy fielded, with Ford's financial backing, a two car team, they would have been successful. Sad!

But when one looks back there is one person who stands out, Michael Kranefuss.
Michael engineered Ford's return to Motorsports and was quoted in the press as a big fan of what the Glidden family had accomplished. When Michael left Ford in 1993 the emphasis on racing shifted even more to NASCAR, TransAm, and oval racing. IMO Bob got pushed out for the increase in oval racing budget. Oval track racing was seen as a better investment, and that thinking prevailed​ until the alliance with John Force.
[/quote]
Bob Maag

Katz427

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Re: Since 1962.....
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2018, 10:30:03 AM »
Bob you are probably right. The only way a 2 car team would have worked at all was to keep it in the Glidden family. Ricki Smith complained that he got very little from his Motorcraft teammate. Glidden was so secretive , it would have been the only way to make it work.
I was always amazed at the fact that it was basically just family, just Four people! Other teams had 3 or 4 times as many. People said Etta worked as hard as Bob and the boys plus kept up with everyday family duties as well. You look at Billy now and it is him and Shannon that do the work, no big team, just TWO people.
All I can say is "Amazing".

e philpott

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Re: Since 1962.....
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2018, 11:04:35 AM »
Glidden was not going to share secrects from hard work with Ricky Smith , it was never going to happen , if Ford thought they was they were wrong .. Harold Stout was the Winnebego man , lived on the same streets as Gliddens , Harold and Billy put together a Field Filler with parts Bob deemed as sub par parts that ended up being faster than Bob's effort with the good parts , Bob went down the street to Stouts house and tore the car apart and discovered Nitrous , Billy is who figured out how Wayne Coutny was fogging it , NHRA knew but didn't care about Wayne County because Mopar was Sponsoring NHRA's Pro Stock division , And of course after Bob's visit to HHRA to show them the Nitrous system then Wayne County happen to be broke into and all they're stuff ruined ... but we know what really happened to Wayne County , they destroyed it themselves
« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 11:37:14 AM by e philpott »

TomP

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Re: Since 1962.....
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2018, 02:47:32 PM »
A friend of mine, Nitro Dave, worked for a funny car team and they were all buddies with some ProStock guys and got to see the inner workings of different nitrous setups for ProStock. They were very clever and so the guys were proud of them and eager to show friends who were obviously not NHRA officials. They had tiny holes rifle drilled through the block and transmission and activation so discreet even having Diamond P install an in-car camera wouldn't show it.