Driving feel differences between 390, 427, 428, and strokers

[Joe-JDC]

Something doesn't jive here, 935 hp and 341 cubic inches?  That is 2.74/hp ci.  You failed to mention just how much boost or N2O.



As for bore/stroke combination, as far as i recall don't the 500 CI Pro Stock guys use something like a 3.50 stroke? That would make for some rather large pistons. My buddy has a 341" SBF he built that makes 935 HP. Big piston, short stroke so there must be something to that arguement.   

[scott foxwell]

Something doesn't jive here, 935 hp and 341 cubic inches?  That is 2.74/hp ci.  You failed to mention just how much boost or N2O.

As for bore/stroke combination, as far as i recall don't the 500 CI Pro Stock guys use something like a 3.50 stroke? That would make for some rather large pistons. My buddy has a 341" SBF he built that makes 935 HP. Big piston, short stroke so there must be something to that arguement.   

Plenty of guys making that kind of hp/ci these days, naturally aspirated. I've done near 2.4 with 611 ci BB Ford. Pro Stock has been over 3hhp/ci for a while now.

[blykins]

In my mind, hp and torque are the biggest proponents for how quick something will wrap up.

[Barry_R]

...and I have had some combinations that sounded like a tugboat when revved in neutral - - that revved up darn near as quickly when the thing was in a car and going down the track - - ran just fine.

[Drew Pojedinec]

Easy on knocking tugboat engines.

[shady]

Tugboat engines knock?

[cammerfe]

My experience doesn't come with any charts or graphs but when I turned my 427 into a 454 the car "felt" slower. Everything remained the same as far as parts and car other than the extra stroke. I never dyno'd or raced it then however the butt-o-meter said the new deal wouldn't out run the old. RPM was the same but it just felt like things happened faster with the 427.

I do know the 454 needed more fuel which proved the previous setup on the car was marginal with the power the 427 was making.

Looking at 'feel', I had a '65 Mustang and Brother Lon had a '66 Fairlane GTA. He equipped the GTA with a 4.44 Detroit Locker, and sticky tires. My Mustang started as a 271/289 and had the full run of Shelby engine mods. I had a 3.50 gear.

There was a measured 1/4 mile starting in front of his house---he would, of course, get me badly at the start and I couldn't catch him in the 1/4, although I was gaining rapidly.

In a marathon session at Jon Corrunker's house, I installed a Paxton VS 59 blower and stopped by Lon's house on my way home. I must admit I was badly disappointed, because the car didn't feel ANY faster. Lon wasn't home, but his wife Karen was, and she was an excellent driver, with very quick reflexes. She was often the driver of his car at Milan.

After discussion, we went out front and lined up. I simply drove away from her and when I got back, her car was back in the garage. I asked her why she didn't try me, and she said, "You drove away from me so hard, instantly, I just quit after the 1-2 shift."

The Mustang had a lot more power, but it was so linear it wasn't nearly as impressive feeling as it would have been if I'd put more cam in it, and one could feel the surge of power as the engine 'came up on the cam'.

For all practical purposes, the engine was ingesting more than twice as much air (and fuel) so the effect was that of having twice as much motor.

So-called 375 horsepower ChevyIIs were easy pickin's out on Telegraph.

I believe the same sort of thing might well happen if one installed a stroker with everything else as before.

KS
 

[Drew Pojedinec]

Tugboat engines knock?

More of a clicking I think between the injector clack and 2lb exhaust valves.

[Hemi Joel]

I'm still new to FE's so my 390 is all I've driven.  I'm curious what is the "seat of the pants" feel of the others usual FE engines.

Obviously every build is different but I'm basically looking to understand which is the most fun to drive on the street, assuming a mild-moderate street build.  Also how does a 427 feel compared to a 428?  Wondering how the different bore and stroke combos affect the "fun factor"

Hi New FE guy. I can't answer your question about the 427, but I certainly can about the 390 vs 428. I yanked the 390 GT out of my 67 Cougar, and dropped in a '69 428 cobra Jet. THe difference driving the car was astounding! It went from a car that could squeel the tires, to car that would set you back in the set and roast them. It was scary/fun to drive!

[Rory428]

My experiance was opposite of Dales, but with similar results. I ran my Fairmont for many years with several identical 428s, and ran a best of 10.03 @132 MPH. When I got my 454 FE, it used the same flat tappet cam, Sidewinder and Holley 780 vac, stock iron CJ heads,same ignition, headers, oiling system etc, the only differance was the .100" larger bore. Same clutch and flywheel, rearend ratio, tire size etc. Results? Pretty much identical. A bunch of 10.0s @132 MPH, and a couple of high 9.9s in great weather conditions.Maybe the heads, and induction system were the "cork" that prevented better performance with either combination, I don`t know.
As for Dales SB Ford example, I really doubt that "Plenty of guys making that kind of HP/CI these days naturally aspirated" is as easy as Scott may like to think. The SBF engine in question is a serious NHRA Competition Eliminator (C/Altered) engine, sort of like what Pro Stock would be if they NHRA was stilling using the older Pro Stock formula of Pounds per Cubic Inch, like they had before the switch to 500 ci engines in 1982. Not many stones left unturned in the quest for naturally aspirated HP. This engine is in a Don Ness built 2012 Mustang, and runs mid 7s in the 1/4 mile.

[Posi67]

Well, I'm sorry that I have a "cop out" excuse for not being an engine  building genius however I'm also not full of myself. Fact is, I've owned one car most of my life and fooling around with it is a hobby so extracting the most HP and having the perfect combination was never a goal. My comment was the 454 didn't "FEEL" as fast as the 427 and I qualified that with the info that I never raced the latter.  That was in response to the original posters question.

As for the SBF... That is factual, the guy also isn't a pro engine builder but has the means to buy what he needs. Do a search and see how many Fords are running in Comp Eliminator.

[scott foxwell]

Well, I'm sorry that I have a "cop out" excuse for not being an engine  building genius however I'm also not full of myself. Fact is, I've owned one car most of my life and fooling around with it is a hobby so extracting the most HP and having the perfect combination was never a goal. My comment was the 454 didn't "FEEL" as fast as the 427 and I qualified that with the info that I never raced the latter.  That was in response to the original posters question.

As for the SBF... That is factual, the guy also isn't a pro engine builder but has the means to buy what he needs. Do a search and see how many Fords are running in Comp Eliminator.

Sorry...my response wasn't meant personal, I just hear that all the time about the internet. I apologize.

[Lenz]

Hello Eric, this is a great thread because it illustrates there are lots ways to increase the "fun factor" from the 390 you currently run.  In my personal experience I went from a warmed over 390 to a 445.  This is a highly cost effective way to go if you're looking to make around 500 horsepower and not break the bank, especially since you already have the raw material (a running 390).  All depends on what you're looking to do with the car.  I can tell you the fun factor is there

[scott foxwell]

I'm building a 390, +.03, Scat H beams, Icon pistons, 10.0:1, Straub hyd roller and some very mild head work. Nice parts but not break the bank parts. Looking for at least 500 @~ 6500 with a Performer rpm and big 4150. I also have a med. riser 2x4 with a pair if 1850's that I don't think will make as much power but we'll see.

[Joe-JDC]

Well, I'm sorry that I have a "cop out" excuse for not being an engine  building genius however I'm also not full of myself. Fact is, I've owned one car most of my life and fooling around with it is a hobby so extracting the most HP and having the perfect combination was never a goal. My comment was the 454 didn't "FEEL" as fast as the 427 and I qualified that with the info that I never raced the latter.  That was in response to the original posters question.

As for the SBF... That is factual, the guy also isn't a pro engine builder but has the means to buy what he needs. Do a search and see how many Fords are running in Comp Eliminator.

However, you still didn't tell us how much boost, or N2O he is running to make 935 hp with 341 cubic inches.  Comp. Eliminator can run anything but nitromethane.  I have been at this since 1962, and I am always a bit doubtful until the facts are shown.  It is not easy to build an engine to make 2 hp/ci NA, unless it has Fuel injection or sheetmetal intake with 2 x 4v.  NASCAR engines are still in the 2.3-2.4hp/ci and they usually only last for one race before complete rebuild.  It is the small cubic inch that makes it questionable.  Joe-JDC