Carburetor madness by Drew

[fe-starliner]

Thanks for posting (most of) the pictures small enough to see and enjoy.  It's very aggravating to want to view a picture so large that  you have to move to to the right several times.  I like what  you're doing with the carbs Drew.  Keep pictures coming.

[Drew Pojedinec]

Yeah, I know, I haven't figured it out with the new camera yet.  I could host them somewhere, or just check out my facebook page, they resize automagically there.

[Drew Pojedinec]

aaaaaand google images doesn't allow linking.   Lemme try somewhere else.

[turbohunter]

Try postimage.org Drew. I use the second to largest size.
Works great

[Drew Pojedinec]

Well I uploaded some to flickr, it sucks but we'll see what happens.

I liked this project.....  I was wanting to turn early 600cfm carbs which I can get fairly cheaply into reliable, good running 2x4 carbs.
So I start with junk 600's

IMG_0054 by Drew Pojedinec, on Flickr

IMG_0055 by Drew Pojedinec, on Flickr

I realized a lil while ago that it is super hard to hold screws and bolts in the blasting cabinet.  A few folks suggested tumblers, and all sortsa other stuff, I figured I'd stay simple, I drilled/tap'd an aluminum plate to hold all the hardware needed for two carbs.

IMG_0058 by Drew Pojedinec, on Flickr

Plating

IMG_0065 by Drew Pojedinec, on Flickr

Plated

IMG_0073 by Drew Pojedinec, on Flickr

So the next mission...  the proper throttle shaft setup for factory progressive usage.  Ok so Carl's has the shafts for $60 each.  Well that is $120 added to a low buck operation, nope.  So I have some early Ford throttle shafts, I needed to find some throttle trunnions that'd work with the progressive linkage.  Well shoot, those are $20 each just for a lil bitty piece of metal, no good....  My neighbor's shop was locked so I didn't have access to his lathe.  I decided to make the parts needed with a drill chucked in the vice and a hand file.  I measured the trunnion size and made two.  Later when I had access to the lathe I made like 25 more.

IMG_0084 by Drew Pojedinec, on Flickr

So it looked like this

IMG_0087 by Drew Pojedinec, on Flickr

When plated you can't tell the steel from the brass.  The trunnion is held on by an 8-32 screw into the backside.... drill press needed for that.  I used a low profile screw head, on the secondary carb check for clearance with the screw head hitting the accelerator pump lever, some grinding may be needed.

IMG_0092 by Drew Pojedinec, on Flickr

I've been taking to double dipping plated throttle shafts.... hit the yellow for 15 seconds and the black for 45seconds.
IMG_0098 by Drew Pojedinec, on Flickr

Coming together

IMG_0100 by Drew Pojedinec, on Flickr

I used two different bases.... one is from an 1850-1 and one is from an 1850-3.  This way you have one pcv hookup and one full time manifold vacuum for automatic transmission usage.

IMG_0107 by Drew Pojedinec, on Flickr

The primary carb has a ported vacuum barb available.  In the secondary carb I drilled and tapped for a 6-32 x 3/16 set screw so the port is plugged internally.

IMG_0111 by Drew Pojedinec, on Flickr

Ok the rest are just glam photos

IMG_0112 by Drew Pojedinec, on Flickr

IMG_0113 by Drew Pojedinec, on Flickr

IMG_0114 by Drew Pojedinec, on Flickr

IMG_0116 by Drew Pojedinec, on Flickr

IMG_0133 by Drew Pojedinec, on Flickr

I think it's a pretty neat project, I'm about to leave for work and won't get to test these out until I get back.  It's ok, the customer who requested them asked me to wait as he had some sorta money set back or whatever.

Either way, I've made up enough parts and have enough cores to knock together about 6 sets of these. 

To be honest, this set is a little too bright and blinged out for my liking, but it's kinda what was desired by the fella that wants them.  I'd like to do one with more mellow colors and one with more of an old cad type color, I'll try to do a few different types when I get back, it'll be cool

[cjshaker]

Carbs look great, Drew. Re-plating makes them look 100x better. Just my opinion, but I think I'd be a little concerned about using soft brass on those trunions. Not just for reasons of wear, but for possible breakage when somebody's foot slips and "accidentally" mashes them to full open. Of course nobody here would do stuff like that, but there are a few goons out there.

[Drew Pojedinec]

I considered that Doug.
I made up a test setup.
I let the loctite set up and beat the snot out of the trunnion while the throttle head was chucked in a vice.
I made some of these trunnions out of steel, but it was much more trouble drilling the hole for the cotter pin.

If the brass was 4 ft long I'd consider this sort of thing as an issue, being .675 of an inch long I'm not as concerned.... I'll play around with it and try to break it on the car in another month.
The only weak link I'd suspect is the overly large sized original sized hole.  I'm thinking about filling that hole with jbweld and redrilling it smaller so there is less side load/sliding possibility. 
This brass is rated at 15000psi  Rockwell B75. if that helps.
Anyway, I'd appreciate some input from the braintrust on that.....

So, out of boredom or just as a proof of concept I made some early Ford type throttle heads out of .100 plate steel.

IMG_0230 by Drew Pojedinec, on Flickr

IMG_0231 by Drew Pojedinec, on Flickr

IMG_0232 by Drew Pojedinec, on Flickr

IMG_0234 by Drew Pojedinec, on Flickr

IMG_0235 by Drew Pojedinec, on Flickr

[Drew Pojedinec]

One thing I'd really appreciate from folks here..... guys that were there in the early 60's.
If any of you have color photos of Holley's from that time period I'd appreciate them

I want to figure a way to plate the linkage to look like it did in 1963.
It was plated, but wasn't shiny nor bright gold, but it's really hard for me figuring out the exact hue based on black and white photos or by looking at 54 year old carbs.

Thanks

[Bolted to Floor]

Nice work Drew. They look great.

[babybolt]

You can buy those throttle shaft arm studs.  I think Summit and Allstate have had them.

Welding those holes up on the arm is a pain.  We used to call them "Chevy holes" because it meant some GM guy got a hold of the carb and drilled it to fit his Camaro.

[Drew Pojedinec]

The ones I bought before were about $10 each, and they worked fine on the top hole, but the lower hole for the secondary carb the stud/nut hits the accelerator pump arm as the throttle is opened.
Maybe there is another type out there?  I dunno.  Either way, If I have to, I'll just make them out of steel.  I can call my suppliers as well and see what they think.

Anyhow, the first row of carbs had been test run, boxed up, and shipped.
Here is hoping to a long life on happy engines for the new owners.  This was the same picture as before just resized.  Headed offshore tomorrow, so progress is going to stop for now.
Just another $3-4k before I break even   Hobbies.... ya know?  Of course now, I'm considering making another plating station to handle the more dull cad type appearing hardware which will set me back a lil on the economic progress.

Only other update, I've gotten a better take with the olive dichromate by using a Hydrochloric acid soak instead of phosphoric.  Also air drying them in a very specific way seems to give a better finish.

IMG_0216 by Drew Pojedinec, on Flickr

[gt350hr]

   Drew ,
     "In the day" the levers were a bit lighter. The levers were plated before being added to the shafts. This left the end of the shaft ( done with some for of roller forming die) natural steel. The spring was also silver . Shafts were black oxide or in many cases  (possibly) hard chromed or nickel plated.  The accellerator pump lever , secondary linkage and choke rod were all shiny black oxide plated. There's more but it really only applies to a concourse situation. Yours are VERY nice looking.
    An automatic screw machine could turn out a few hundred linkage pins for  pennies each ( well under a dollar anyway).  Holly used another "roller die" form on the back side to attach them originally.
  Randy

[Drew Pojedinec]

Thank you very much for the information Randy, I really appreciate it.
First hand input sure beats the "carburetor archeology" I've been doing by buying old carbs and trying to figure out what wore when.


(thinking out loud here, so bear with me)

-Realistically I shouldn't be removing the throttle heads from the shafts to plate the parts individually as I don't have the proper tools for it to be installed correctly, and I'll make more of a mess.

-I can't really do black oxide yet, but the black dichromate over zinc plating looks decent and is easy enough that I'll probably stick with it for now.  If nothing else the benefit of zinc plating is it can't flake off.....

-From what I can see of old originals, the cad/zinc plating was super thick and well done.  What some people think is a dull metal finish is just the very light coating of dichromate that wore off and the zinc/cad coat remained as it was thick enough to withstand 55-60 years.  I'll need another plating station to replicate that cad look..... obviously for environmental reasons I am not going to be doing cad plating.  Ya see, with my current chem situation, once I add "brightener" to the electroplating bath you cannot remove it, only wait for it to wear out or be used up.  By having too baths I can have one for nice pretty bright parts and one for lighter/duller matte finishes..... just another $500 to setup, I'm ok with that if need be.

-I'll make up a few sets of 2x4 600's when I get back home and try to make them look as original as I can, I'll submit photos for you guys to critique in regards to their appearance for originality sake.   I mean, I'm not doing concours restorations or anything, this is all more just for personal satisfaction, 99% of the people out there wouldn't know the difference anyhow.

-Still not overly concerned about the brass vs steel trunnion thing as when I tested them out with a hammer, the throttle head bent and the brass remained solid when I was beating on it all with a mini sledge, but I'll notify customers so if they are concerned they can buy the shafts from Carl's or aftermarket trunnions.

[gt350hr]

   Drew ,
       "Most" restored carbs I see have too many parts done in gold. Both the screw and nut for the float adjustment "were" silver as were the screws into the throttle shafts for the choke and secondary diaphram.  "One" way to do the throttle lever is time intensive but involves the use of candle wax to "cover" areas that you don't want plated. NOBODY wants to pay for the time it takes to do this but it is "A" way that I have used on my own. I haven't successfully removed and replaced a throttle lever yet without a tack weld. Lucky for me this was a "field fix" for some of the SK numbered carburetors I have when the levers loosened up in use.

[Drew Pojedinec]

I've been lucky with a gentle punch/hammer to tighten up loose throttle levers, but the weld was my concern after plating.....  It'd ruin it.
Great info on the candle wax.... I considered using painters tape but wasn't sure how that would hold up......

I'm not sure if just raw zinc or zinc + blue dichromate is the perfect answer for some of the screws, I've played around a little with it, I think it's close to perfectly in between the two   I'll have to play with a super short dichromate dip and see what it looks like.
I dunno if you do plating, but the speed that something dries and temperature seems to matter as well, so that might be worth experimenting with.

Here is the raw "bright" plating with no dichromate dip

IMG_0144 by Drew Pojedinec, on Flickr

And here is one with a variety:

IMG_0140 by Drew Pojedinec, on Flickr

Close up of the blue and closeup of the short yellow dip which requires a very slow, low temperature drying.  If the drying gets hurried in any way it gets iridescent which I despise.  At the same time any moisture left on it promotes streaking.
I have been using the blue for the needle seat adjuster and really really like the result so that isn't a problem.

IMG_0143 by Drew Pojedinec, on Flickr

IMG_0142 by Drew Pojedinec, on Flickr



As I've stated in the past, I have a good job.... I work 6 months a year to make more than I need.
This is just strictly for fun and in some way just to strive for perfection with these things.
Obviously bright gold is super easy as the parts can be batched and all done at once.  If some Ford brother needed a perfect restoration, I'd like to be able to provide.... i don't care if it takes me 3 days to do a set of carbs, it'd be worth it to do it "right" if that makes sense.  Most of you guys are my friends, I think it's cool to learn the processes and make these things perfect.  Input like yours in valuable in a way I cannot express, so thanks for that.

Drew