Author Topic: Right stuff  (Read 11185 times)

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George vega

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Right stuff
« on: August 18, 2017, 08:03:22 PM »
When I assembled my 428 I used right stuff on the front and rear rails as well as around the water passages and had absolutely no leaks. Great stuff. Today I went to take the intake off and guess What? No way to get the intake off even after using a razor to cut the seals. The only option I have now is to do it the old gashion way when they pulled cast iron ones.
Hook up a plate to the carb flange and use the engine hoist to pull it off. Maybe tomorrow.
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scott foxwell

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Re: Right stuff
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2017, 08:52:10 AM »
George, get something that you can wedge between the china rail and end of the intake, and pry with steady pressure. Keep the pressure on it and it may take a few seconds, but it'll pop loose. I use my gasket scraper because it's wide and flat and fairly stiff and won't ding the intake. Next time use Permatex Ultra Seal. It works much better than silicone but a lot easier to disassemble than Rightstuff. It's the wrongstuff.  ::)

philminotti

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Re: Right stuff
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2017, 09:08:58 AM »
I agree.  The Rightstuff seals great, but the disassembly is atrocious.  After the first time I had to pull my intake with it, I immediately switched to Motorcraft TA-31.

jimeast

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Re: Right stuff
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2017, 10:47:02 AM »
If you remove the head and intake bolts, then jostle the heads around, it should come loose a lot easier, and possibly without any prying.  Worked for me. 

*** Edit *** Assuming the Rocker Shafts are removed!
« Last Edit: August 19, 2017, 11:59:07 AM by jimeast »

George vega

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Re: Right stuff
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2017, 03:07:02 PM »
Everything is removed. I'm sure that the engine hoist  will separate it. I need to get it out of the trailer to get the headers off anyway. I've  tried pry bars and it doesn't budge. I'm  afraid of breaking my new victor intake.
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Pentroof

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Re: Right stuff
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2017, 08:20:25 PM »
....I used right stuff on the front and rear rails as well as around the water passages and had absolutely no leaks.

I believe that's the whole point. I would much rather spend 5 minutes with a blade than any time at all with a leaking China wall. I guess if it's a weekend racer, that's one thing. For a motor I don't plan to take apart for years, I'm OK with a little adhesion added to my sealant.
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Lowrider

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Re: Right stuff
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2017, 07:20:23 AM »
I feel your pain. I don't know what the PO used to seal the aluminum 3x2 intake with but it wouldn't budge. Finally took a couple gasket scrapers and tapped them in between the intake and heads at the exhaust crossover area. After a while it finally broke loose. I scrapped for hours on that intake.

rcodecj

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Re: Right stuff
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2017, 07:26:43 AM »
I quit using Right Stuff because it's so hard to get off.
The TA-31 seals as well and is much easier to remove in my opinion.
I like the color better too with an aluminum intake.

My427stang

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Re: Right stuff
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2017, 08:07:10 AM »
George, get something that you can wedge between the china rail and end of the intake, and pry with steady pressure. Keep the pressure on it and it may take a few seconds, but it'll pop loose. I use my gasket scraper because it's wide and flat and fairly stiff and won't ding the intake. Next time use Permatex Ultra Seal. It works much better than silicone but a lot easier to disassemble than Rightstuff. It's the wrongstuff.  ::)

I am an end cork guy and I love Ultra Seal.  However, as an old FE head that sees a lot of guys eliminating the end seals, I would warn you against Ultra Seal on the ends.

Ultra Seal is a little better than standard RTV, but the end rail surfaces on an FE are long and narrow and the bead is usually thick compared to a BBC or SBC.  Granted, Edelbrock has closed them up a bit on the new manifolds, but still a lot tougher to seal correctly than other engines. 

Right Stuff was the "right stuff", although you paid for the sealing with the adhesive, until people started finding porous/bubbles and seeping oil.  Moreover, I think Right Stuff is the messiest, craziest crap ever made.  Seems to get everywhere when I use it. TA-31 seems to be pretty darn good, but will also hold tight, maybe not quite as tight, but if using it in place of china rail seals you need it to grip. Just really need a better/longer blade to cut it.

I still like fitting the manifold for cork.  I use 3M weatherstrip to glue them to the block and let them dry solid, then immediately before assembly I sparingly use Ultra Blue at the intake gasket/end seal junction and across the cork.  It acts as a lube which allows the manifold to move and not push the end seal out.  Then of course it hardens and helps seal.  If you have the room, it's hard to beat.  I have even made end seals out of thinner material to avoid having to count on a bead of sealant.

It'd be nice if someone made a good rubber seal with locating tabs on both sides of the wal, so that it would stay put, but nothing out there that I know of
« Last Edit: August 20, 2017, 08:08:46 AM by My427stang »
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Ross
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- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

scott foxwell

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Re: Right stuff
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2017, 10:04:24 AM »
Sharpen the end of a hack saw blade and jamb it through the end seal, then cut the darn stuff. If you can't pry it off, I highly doubt you'll PULL it off with a hoist. You can probably lift the front of the car.

scott foxwell

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Re: Right stuff
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2017, 10:21:45 AM »
George, get something that you can wedge between the china rail and end of the intake, and pry with steady pressure. Keep the pressure on it and it may take a few seconds, but it'll pop loose. I use my gasket scraper because it's wide and flat and fairly stiff and won't ding the intake. Next time use Permatex Ultra Seal. It works much better than silicone but a lot easier to disassemble than Rightstuff. It's the wrongstuff.  ::)

I am an end cork guy and I love Ultra Seal.  However, as an old FE head that sees a lot of guys eliminating the end seals, I would warn you against Ultra Seal on the ends.

Ultra Seal is a little better than standard RTV, but the end rail surfaces on an FE are long and narrow and the bead is usually thick compared to a BBC or SBC.  Granted, Edelbrock has closed them up a bit on the new manifolds, but still a lot tougher to seal correctly than other engines. 

Right Stuff was the "right stuff", although you paid for the sealing with the adhesive, until people started finding porous/bubbles and seeping oil.  Moreover, I think Right Stuff is the messiest, craziest crap ever made.  Seems to get everywhere when I use it. TA-31 seems to be pretty darn good, but will also hold tight, maybe not quite as tight, but if using it in place of china rail seals you need it to grip. Just really need a better/longer blade to cut it.

I still like fitting the manifold for cork.  I use 3M weatherstrip to glue them to the block and let them dry solid, then immediately before assembly I sparingly use Ultra Blue at the intake gasket/end seal junction and across the cork.  It acts as a lube which allows the manifold to move and not push the end seal out.  Then of course it hardens and helps seal.  If you have the room, it's hard to beat.  I have even made end seals out of thinner material to avoid having to count on a bead of sealant.

It'd be nice if someone made a good rubber seal with locating tabs on both sides of the wal, so that it would stay put, but nothing out there that I know of
I do this for a living and use Ultra Seal on every intake. I doubt if the tube of Ultra can tell if it's an FE or BB Chev. It seals very well even on long narrow wide gaps. Like with anything you use, it's all in the prep and how you install the intake. I use Super Weatherstrip on intake gaskets. It's good stuff too. I make temporary end seals out of different thickness rubber strips when I'm dyno testing intake manifolds, but for me, end seals are just a potential leak on a customer's engine. If I used them, I'd do exactly as you do.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2017, 10:23:19 AM by scott foxwell »

blykins

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Re: Right stuff
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2017, 11:15:51 AM »
Well believe it or not, FE's are a different animal because the cylinder head drains aim right at the china walls.  If there is a weakness there, oil will find it. 

I don't use cork end gaskets either because there are too many aftermarket applications where the ports line up perfectly but the china wall gap is way more than a section of cork. 

The Right Stuff has let me down because of porosity.  Have also used TA-31, but just not a fan of it.  It's like never-seize, you'll end up with it from head to toe eventually.  I prefer to use Down Corning 732 silicone and have for a couple of years now.  It's FE proof and comes off super easy. 

You may get lucky on 1-2 FE's with something less-than-substantial on the end seals, but you will eventually find a weak bead. 

Chevy's are different animals.  You put all the parts in a bag, shake it, and out pops an engine.  FE's take a little finesse.

« Last Edit: August 20, 2017, 11:26:58 AM by blykins »
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Royce

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Re: Right stuff
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2017, 11:55:31 AM »
I am a Right Stuff fan and use it on most applications  It is no messier than any other RTV product and it is wonderfully flexible, and as has been said tremendous adhesive properties.. It IS difficult to separate parts once it has dried.. I use this tool.  It is thin spring steel beveled on both sides and sharp enough to slice the bead..It is also great for separating intake gaskets so they can be reused.

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I find the only time Right Stuff leaks is if you did not smear it carefully on both sealing surfaces to adhere it to non sticking areas.. I also have had good luck sealing up a leak by applying over the outer surface.. I had an oil pan on one of my Frankenstein engines that would have required a modified gasket.. A thick bead of right stuff sealed it better than any gasket.. But OH Boy when it cam time to remove the pan... I did not cut the bead but tried to pry it off.. I bent the pan rail trying to pull it loose
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Drew Pojedinec

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Re: Right stuff
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2017, 12:08:13 PM »
I prefer to use Dow Corning 732 silicone and have for a couple of years now.  It's FE proof and comes off super easy. 


-and it comes in a caulk gun tube cartridge, which makes it super super easy to apply a perfect bead on the endwalls.

The Dow corning also appears to last for a very long time, whereas a half full tube of regular rtv would set up inside the tube during that time.

My427stang

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Re: Right stuff
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2017, 12:35:21 PM »
George, get something that you can wedge between the china rail and end of the intake, and pry with steady pressure. Keep the pressure on it and it may take a few seconds, but it'll pop loose. I use my gasket scraper because it's wide and flat and fairly stiff and won't ding the intake. Next time use Permatex Ultra Seal. It works much better than silicone but a lot easier to disassemble than Rightstuff. It's the wrongstuff.  ::)

I am an end cork guy and I love Ultra Seal.  However, as an old FE head that sees a lot of guys eliminating the end seals, I would warn you against Ultra Seal on the ends.

Ultra Seal is a little better than standard RTV, but the end rail surfaces on an FE are long and narrow and the bead is usually thick compared to a BBC or SBC.  Granted, Edelbrock has closed them up a bit on the new manifolds, but still a lot tougher to seal correctly than other engines. 

Right Stuff was the "right stuff", although you paid for the sealing with the adhesive, until people started finding porous/bubbles and seeping oil.  Moreover, I think Right Stuff is the messiest, craziest crap ever made.  Seems to get everywhere when I use it. TA-31 seems to be pretty darn good, but will also hold tight, maybe not quite as tight, but if using it in place of china rail seals you need it to grip. Just really need a better/longer blade to cut it.

I still like fitting the manifold for cork.  I use 3M weatherstrip to glue them to the block and let them dry solid, then immediately before assembly I sparingly use Ultra Blue at the intake gasket/end seal junction and across the cork.  It acts as a lube which allows the manifold to move and not push the end seal out.  Then of course it hardens and helps seal.  If you have the room, it's hard to beat.  I have even made end seals out of thinner material to avoid having to count on a bead of sealant.

It'd be nice if someone made a good rubber seal with locating tabs on both sides of the wal, so that it would stay put, but nothing out there that I know of
I do this for a living and use Ultra Seal on every intake. I doubt if the tube of Ultra can tell if it's an FE or BB Chev. It seals very well even on long narrow wide gaps. Like with anything you use, it's all in the prep and how you install the intake. I use Super Weatherstrip on intake gaskets. It's good stuff too. I make temporary end seals out of different thickness rubber strips when I'm dyno testing intake manifolds, but for me, end seals are just a potential leak on a customer's engine. If I used them, I'd do exactly as you do.

Scott, appreciate the fact that you do this for a living, and you of course don't know me from Adam, but I was pulling wrenches professionally for Ford when Ultra series came out.  Loved it and still love it compared to stinky RTV.  In 1986 I opened my own shop and in 1995 we combined it with another family shop because I decided to join the USAF to fly. Through 1995 it fed us, put me through 2 college degrees has since then still pays for all my toys and tools, without touching any of my regular income, and all the time an FE guy.  To be honest though, plenty of mice and rats paid the bills and much of the Ford work were fleets of  FTs and FE pickups in the late 80s, all the more reason to not want to redo an intake

Now that I am done peeing on a fire hydrant, I am trying to help, if you don't want to agree, no need to and I am done talking, but from experience I do not think it's good advice for an FE, and I'd politely warn you not to do it on your upcoming build. 

If this were a Chevy style rubber gasket, thinner gap and wider footprint, I'll give it to you in a heart beat.  Ultra is a bit better than RTV, but not much and the china walls on an FE are different.  Too much you push into a return, but you need a lot to fill a gap and the block wall is narrow.  What generally happens with a non-adhesive type of gasket maker is that it lasts for a bit, and once oil crawls behind it, it lets go just like RTV. 

Personally, I have never had an FE end seal leak.  I have had some fight me until I was happy, often machining the intake, and even taping off the valley and using a coarse file to knock down a cork gasket to make it perfect, but pure sealer on an FE IMHO only works if you have an adhesive/gasket maker, and a tight gap.

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Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch