Author Topic: My first FE - 488ci Dyno results  (Read 13824 times)

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jgkurz

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My first FE - 488ci Dyno results
« on: April 04, 2017, 11:31:37 PM »
Here are my initial results. A sincere thank you to Blair Patrick, Craig Bloom at Eastco Machine, Ray Paquet, and especially my own dad for helping make this engine project a sucecss. My dad worked and raced for Ford for 42 years and was an FE guy before I was born. We haven't always been close but this project was a true bonding experience that I'm grateful for. I am very happy with the outcome and can't wait to get the engine in the car. I will be using a 4R70W automatic with a 3000 lockup convertor which should be interesting.  I suspect there is more power in the engine if I changed the mechanical water pump, mechanical fuel pump, HV oil pump causing TOO HIGH high pressure, the 3.5">3" reducer at the end of my collectors and to some extent, the dual plane 2x4 intake. My goal was a great running and reliable engine for the street/strip. Mission accomplished!  -John


Performance Summary:
      Cubic Inches:  488ci                                  Dyno brand: Superflow SF902
      Power Adder:  None                                   Where dynoed: NW Dyno, Gresham Oregon
      Peak Horsepower: 568.3 at 5600rpm       Engine Design, Heads, Cam, Lifters, Pistons, Numerous other items: Blair Patrick
      Peak Torque: 584.3 at 4500rpm               Block machining and short block assembly: Eastco machine, Gresham Oregon
                                                                        Final Assembly: Yours truly




Horsepower and Torque Curves:
Red lines: No mufflers, No aircleaner
Black lines: With aircleaner and mufflers





Video: https://youtu.be/7B82-Q3nIjc

Engine Specifications:
   Block brand, material, finished bore size, other notes: Ford 1971 427ci Side Oiler Service Block, 4.250 .017 over
     
   Crankshaft brand, cast or forged, stroke, journal size: Crower billet, 4.300 stroke, 2.7487 mains
     
   Connecting Rods brand, material, center to center distance, end sizes, bolts: Crower billet, 6.625, Big end dia 2.325, Pin end dia .990

   Piston brand, material (caster, hypereutectic or forged), dish/dome volume, static CR: CP/Blair Patrick, Forged, 10.50 compression

   Main Bearings, Rod Bearings, Cam Bearings brand and size: Clevite

   Piston rings brand, size, other notes: CP Plasma Moly

   Oil Pump, pickup, and drive: Precision Oil Pump M-57AHV with 5/16 shaft (FAR TOO MUCH OIL PRESSURE)

   Oil pan, windage tray, oil filter adapter: Canton 15-820 pan with windage tray. Ford oil filter adapter (larger CJ version) WIX 51515R Oil filter

   Camshaft brand, type (hyd/solid, flat tappet or roller), lift and duration (adv and @.050") Blair Patrick Hydraulic roller 611 lift

   Lifters brand, type: Morel Limited Travel

   Idle and Vacuum: Idles best between 950-1000rpm with 10inHG vacuum

   Timing chain and timing cover: Ford Motorsport timing set, Roush cover

   Cylinder heads brand, material, port and chamber information: Bear Block Motors Medium Riser Aluminum/Blair Patrick Prepared

   Rocker arm brand, type (adjustable or non-adj), material, ratio: T&D Street, 1.75

   Rocker shafts and stands, brand, material: T&D

   Pushrods brand, type, length: 3/8 Smith Brothers with oiling hole for rockers

   Valve covers, brand, type: 428 Cobra Jet Finned aluminum with modified baffles

   PCV: Wagner adjustable

   Distributor brand, advance curve information: MSD Pro-Billet 8594 Locked at 45 deg using MSD 6AL2-P

   Harmonic balancer brand: ATI 360deg damper

   Water pump brand, type (mechanical or electric): Edelbrock 8835 Mechanical

   Fuel pump: RobbMc 1100HP mechanical

   Starter: RobbMc

   Intake manifold brand, material, porting information: Ford aluminum MR 2x4 – Port matched

   Carburetor(s) brand, type: Two QuickFuel 750cfm vacuum secondaries/Blair Patrick Prepared

   Exhaust manifolds or headers brand, type: REF Headers with merge collectors/ Blair Patrick designed for FE Mustangs
« Last Edit: April 07, 2017, 08:11:27 AM by jgkurz »

cjshaker

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Re: My first FE - 488ci Dyno results
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2017, 12:49:46 AM »
John, congratulations on a nice engine. A very good looking one too.

Those are some pretty nice numbers with an especially impressive torque curve. Given a max hp rating at 5500 rpm, that thing should last forever. The graph is pretty interesting, showing the power doesn't just drop after max hp, like is typical, it just kind of floats out there with another 1000 rpm of usable power. It's also interesting to see how much the mufflers and air cleaners drop the torque through the lower part of the power band, yet they seem to help a bit at the lower part of the pull. What type of mufflers and air cleaner set-up did you use? Size of piping?

I'm also curious what that piping is that comes out right above the water pump. It looks like AN fittings, is that coming off a fuel regulator? I'm also curious what timing cover that is?
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

Barry_R

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Re: My first FE - 488ci Dyno results
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2017, 05:58:38 AM »
Torque at 1.2 per cubic inch - - looks like a good engine and a good dyno.  The 1100 RPM spread between peaks seems a hair tighter than I often see, but like Doug noted it runs well beyond the peak smoothly.  Should be a very nice package.

blykins

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Re: My first FE - 488ci Dyno results
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2017, 07:50:29 AM »
Do you mean the distributor was locked out at 35°? 

You're gonna have a ball with that in your Mustang....
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 07:53:44 AM by blykins »
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
Instagram:  brentlykinsmotorsports
YouTube:  Lykins Motorsports

jgkurz

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Re: My first FE - 488ci Dyno results
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2017, 08:43:17 AM »
Do you mean the distributor was locked out at 35°? 

You're gonna have a ball with that in your Mustang....

Thanks Brent, my distributor is actually locked at 45deg. I run 20deg initial and 32 total for max power. This leaves me a potential of up to 13deg for vacuum advance. The BBM heads are surprising efficient so 32 deg was all it wanted for max power. For sensing vacuum advance, I use a 1-bar MAP sensor that works with my MSD 6AL2-Programmable. I suspect the engine may only need 40deg for lean best cruise. The rotor is phased with MSD 's adjustable rotor since the original MSD rotor was found to be well offset from the #1 post.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 08:49:53 AM by jgkurz »

Drew Pojedinec

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Re: My first FE - 488ci Dyno results
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2017, 08:49:21 AM »
So the distributor isn't locked and functions normally.... got it.

I have to say, that is a hell of a first FE to own.  Most of us beat the snot out of 360's and 390's forever.

Only one question, why the expense of the Crower Crank and Rods for an under 600hp engine?  Are there plans for the future or?

blykins

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Re: My first FE - 488ci Dyno results
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2017, 08:50:00 AM »
Ahh...

Typically, when you say distributor locked at 45, it means that it's mechanically locked out and it's set at 45. 

You may want to edit your description and note that it's 32 degrees total plus 13 degrees vacuum advance.
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
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YouTube:  Lykins Motorsports

jgkurz

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Re: My first FE - 488ci Dyno results
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2017, 08:53:27 AM »
So the distributor isn't locked and functions normally.... got it.

I have to say, that is a hell of a first FE to own.  Most of us beat the snot out of 360's and 390's forever.

Only one question, why the expense of the Crower Crank and Rods for an under 600hp engine?  Are there plans for the future or?

The distributor has no internal advance. It is locked at 45deg. The curve is programmed in my MSD 6AL2-P. The Crower crank and rods were a gift from my father who was an FE guy and raced for many years. I also wanted the ability to upgrade the engine later on if/when the desire was there.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 10:49:19 AM by jgkurz »

jgkurz

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Re: My first FE - 488ci Dyno results
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2017, 08:56:51 AM »
Ahh...

Typically, when you say distributor locked at 45, it means that it's mechanically locked out and it's set at 45. 

You may want to edit your description and note that it's 32 degrees total plus 13 degrees vacuum advance.

It is mechanically locked out at 45deg but the complete curve is programmed electronically. MSD has me set the tining in the distributor to the max possible timing that will ever be programmed.

blykins

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Re: My first FE - 488ci Dyno results
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2017, 08:58:23 AM »
My bad, I didn't understand. 

I have a customer running a set up just like that, where the dist is locked out and the box controls the curve.  I should have read better. 

Nice piece man.
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
Instagram:  brentlykinsmotorsports
YouTube:  Lykins Motorsports

jgkurz

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Re: My first FE - 488ci Dyno results
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2017, 09:00:22 AM »
Torque at 1.2 per cubic inch - - looks like a good engine and a good dyno.  The 1100 RPM spread between peaks seems a hair tighter than I often see, but like Doug noted it runs well beyond the peak smoothly.  Should be a very nice package.

Thank you Barry. I was surpised by the peaks as well. The torque starts very low will be hard on my tires and my stall convertor. : )

jgkurz

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Re: My first FE - 488ci Dyno results
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2017, 09:13:12 AM »
My bad, I didn't understand. 

I have a customer running a set up just like that, where the dist is locked out and the box controls the curve.  I should have read better. 

Nice piece man.

It's confusing at first. Trust me. Programming the MSD is about pulling timing out and giving it back when needed.  Here my map. The boost retard can be used in reverse for vacuum advance. I have the vacuum advance starting at 9 PSIa which is about 11.5 inches of vacuum and all in by 15.5 inches. I may move the start up to 14 inches (~8PSIa) or so after I see how the car responds on the freeway.

« Last Edit: April 07, 2017, 08:12:08 AM by jgkurz »

cjshaker

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Re: My first FE - 488ci Dyno results
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2017, 09:21:33 AM »
Are the answers to my questions top secret?
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

jgkurz

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Re: My first FE - 488ci Dyno results
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2017, 09:39:28 AM »
John, congratulations on a nice engine. A very good looking one too.

Those are some pretty nice numbers with an especially impressive torque curve. Given a max hp rating at 5500 rpm, that thing should last forever. The graph is pretty interesting, showing the power doesn't just drop after max hp, like is typical, it just kind of floats out there with another 1000 rpm of usable power. It's also interesting to see how much the mufflers and air cleaners drop the torque through the lower part of the power band, yet they seem to help a bit at the lower part of the pull. What type of mufflers and air cleaner set-up did you use? Size of piping?

I'm also curious what that piping is that comes out right above the water pump. It looks like AN fittings, is that coming off a fuel regulator? I'm also curious what timing cover that is?

Thank you very much Doug. I responded to you last because I needed to upload some photos and gather some info. Your car has somewhat been an inspiration for me. My 69 Mach 1 did not have the original 428 in it when I got it in 2013. It actually had a 429 Lima engine. It worked well but I wanted an FE. I intended on finding a 428CJ block but came across a very nice unmollested 427 side oiler which led me down this path. Your past guidance was helpful. Now regarding your questions. It is intesting to see mufflers and air cleaner run start at higher #'s then the max effort configuration. I have no idea why. The air cleaner is a typical Cobra 2x4 with a K&N 1.5" element. The exhaust on the dyno was with 3" pipe back to 3" large turbo mufflers. I don't recall the brand.

The AN fittings by my T-stat are the hardline I made from my pump and filter. I custom made a new fuel log with AN fittings. I was a little concerned if the OEM fuel log could keep up. Here are some early pics of the fuel line build. Notice the filter is tucked in between the timing cover and the T-stat housing. It looks nice and is fuctional but it may suffer cause vapor lock. If that happens I'll run a return line to the fuel tank. I'm already looking at this new tank:http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=489/category_id=135/mode=prod/prd489.htm 

My timing cover is a new Roush unit that was on eBay a while back.








« Last Edit: April 07, 2017, 08:13:08 AM by jgkurz »

Drew Pojedinec

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Re: My first FE - 488ci Dyno results
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2017, 11:47:54 AM »
Very cool build.  Hope my questions weren't taken wrong, simply curious as you don't see a build like this everyday.

Best of luck with her, it'll be a fun engine to haul that Mustang.