Author Topic: Current intake comparo: stroker 440 Dodge-tunnel ram versus Dominator  (Read 5530 times)

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jayb

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Re: Current intake comparo: stroker 440 Dodge-tunnel ram versus Dominator
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2016, 03:06:09 PM »
They needed bigger carbs to make the tunnel ram work.  A test on a friends motor I did a while back (probably in one of the posts here) showed a 20 HP difference across the whole rpm range when going from a pair of Holley 450 cfm carbs to a pair of Holley 660s.  Big, big difference.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 04:35:16 PM by jayb »
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

machoneman

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Re: Current intake comparo: stroker 440 Dodge-tunnel ram versus Dominator
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2016, 04:22:35 PM »
Ah yes Jay. That's what I thought from your previous test. Why they chose the smallish 500 cfm carbs was odd unless they had nothing else laying about.
Bob Maag

Barry_R

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Re: Current intake comparo: stroker 440 Dodge-tunnel ram versus Dominator
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2016, 04:22:57 PM »
A customer supplied a pair of those on a Edelbrock dual quad package.

The 500 cfm Edelbrock carbs are the absolute worst pieces of garbage I have ever run on any engine ever on the dyno.  The boosters are huge in cross section and dead flat across the top - completely 100% in opposition of any airflow design ever used successfully in any carb ever.  I could not remove enough fuel to make them work.  At one point I just locked the metering rods into the down position and it just barely got into the 12:1 range.  But you could never, ever drive it that way.

If they would have bolted a couple 750s or Holley anythings on it they would have found eight million horsepower.

machoneman

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Re: Current intake comparo: stroker 440 Dodge-tunnel ram versus Dominator
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2016, 04:46:13 PM »
Barry, you are funny as hell today!  ;)

Now, tell us what you REALLY think of those carbs! LOL! 
Bob Maag

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Re: Current intake comparo: stroker 440 Dodge-tunnel ram versus Dominator
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2016, 06:19:33 PM »
I've been really on & off sick for a couple weeks and had no voice until this afternoon when it finally started clearing up.  Feeling my "oats" as it were...

I think I have a picture of that carb looking straight down into the boosters.  Nobody should EVER have released that piece of junk into the market.  An embarrassment to anybody that understands airflow dynamics.

ec164

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Re: Current intake comparo: stroker 440 Dodge-tunnel ram versus Dominator
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2016, 10:12:28 PM »
Bob if you search Hot Rod, Marlin Davis did a article when I worked at Arrow Racing Engines mid eighties called "Shake and Bake B engine", we tried several intakes and camshafts on a 440 including a tunnel ram, very interesting results.....Al
You're ahead in a Mercury......all the way

Falcon67

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Re: Current intake comparo: stroker 440 Dodge-tunnel ram versus Dominator
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2016, 09:43:26 AM »
Even on my bitty 302 I used a pair of Ed 600s.  Pretty easy - easier than I thought - to tune those.  Surprising to me, they wanted one step rich primary and secondary (about 4% IIRC) all the way around on both for best MPH.  From Barry's comments, glad I didn't opt for the 500s.  When the dragster gets going, I'm considering a 351C t-ram and a pair of 650DPs, just for fun. 

Joe-JDC

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Re: Current intake comparo: stroker 440 Dodge-tunnel ram versus Dominator
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2016, 02:04:47 PM »
You guys are scaring me, I just purchased a pair of 600 Edelbrocks for a 8V intake on my Y block, and I figured they would run decent on the street.  Carb spacing made the choice for me.  I hope they work, will be testing them on the dyno when the engine is finished.  Joe-JDC
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Falcon67

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Re: Current intake comparo: stroker 440 Dodge-tunnel ram versus Dominator
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2016, 02:44:01 PM »
Be sure they are set box stock to start with. and you may need at least one tuning kit and maybe some spare parts, like jets or needles.  I'll have to go find my notes to be sure, but the 1406's I used ran well enough at base calibration.  I fattened them up for drag strip use "one step" rich primary and secondary, per the manual.  The shooters that worked were .033s.  Remember this is a t-ram setup with lotsa plenum volume. I also ran them 1:1, no progressive linkage.  I can do that easier maybe because I run things with locked timing and I don't do low stall converters.  YMMV as they say.  Your application may like a progressive tip in - you'll just have to try things and see what the combination likes.

Look at it this way - you could drive around with a 600DP, so two 600 CFM Eds are nothing more than maybe a "500DP" running on the smaller primary barrels.  The Ed Performers are really mechanical secondary carbs with a weighted air vane to control secondary operation.  The weighted air vane secondary won't even come in until you get enough air flow going.  (Why I'd like to try the Thunder series - tunable secondary tip in).  On my 302 t-ram setup, that was around 5400 RPM.  Also don't forget - if that dual 4 intake is a dual plane (I'd imagine it is) then at any particular time the engine only sees half the available carburetion thats passing air. 

Here's what "too much carb" on a 300 HP 302 in a 3000 lb 4 door looks like


Get it dial in, then enjoy the "that's too much carb, must not run very good" comments.  I got the "haha, nice joke" from the other racers, then ran within 0.1 of my normal ET and won the 2nd race of the year, no more LOLs after that.  LOL.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2016, 02:50:45 PM by Falcon67 »

e philpott

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Re: Current intake comparo: stroker 440 Dodge-tunnel ram versus Dominator
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2016, 02:55:26 PM »
Looks like the 440 Mopar is using the Thunder Series carb .... Just installed the 650 Thunder series on a 1962 Lincoln convertible with 430 , ran beautiful out of the box

Barry_R

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Re: Current intake comparo: stroker 440 Dodge-tunnel ram versus Dominator
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2016, 03:20:54 PM »
The 600s are fine.
The 500s are trash

Joe-JDC

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Re: Current intake comparo: stroker 440 Dodge-tunnel ram versus Dominator
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2016, 03:32:22 PM »
I bought two of the Edel 14053s with two tuning kits for dyno testing.  My intakes are the Edelbrock 255 8V, and Ford ECG-D 8V, both of which I have extensively ported and flow balanced as much as possible.  I have spacers matched to the intakes, and hopefully they will perform as well as the Mummert 4V, or better.  The Edelbrock 255 that I ported for Ted Eaton's intake shootout series made the best power over all the other 8V intakes tested, before the new Mummert TR.  Joe-JDC 
Joe-JDC '70GT-500

Heo

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Re: Current intake comparo: stroker 440 Dodge-tunnel ram versus Dominator
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2016, 04:32:19 PM »
I have run a few 600 Edelbrocks what i found out is.
 They dont like high fuel pressure tends to  flood
 with a stock mecanical pump



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Royce

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Re: Current intake comparo: stroker 440 Dodge-tunnel ram versus Dominator
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2016, 05:09:29 PM »
Joe, I think you will like the Ebocks. I have a pair of 600s that I have run on several different combos. I think I made 1 jet and rod change and they have always spot on.  They run a very nice fuel curve. When Jay tested the new 2x4 intake from Ebock for his Intake Comparo book he borrowed these carbs.. He found they performed very well.. There are probably a few horses left on the table vs a Holley, but they are very user friendly.
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