Which Oil ? documentation?

[Toppa]

Hey folks,

simple questionS: which oil do you use in your old 390?

anybody has some documentation or manuals ?

[fastback 427]

I use brad penn 20-50, but you won't go wrong with rotella 15-40 triple t or valvoline vr1. Google high zinc oil and you'll find all the info you need.

[Katz427]

I have to say that Brad Penn or Valvoline Vr1 are your best bet. The diesel oils like Shell and all have very little zinc in them now because of emissions and the particulate filters on the new diesels. The zinc fouls the particulate (DPF) filter.

[fastback 427]

Kats427, we took in a sample of rotella to our caterpillar sealer two years ago for testing an it came back right at 1200 ppm zinc content. Have they recently changed it?

[BattlestarGalactic]

My old stock 352 I ran std Valvoline in it, not VR1.  With the weak stock springs I never saw an issue.   Now the hot rods all get VR1  20w50.

[Katz427]

I have to say that I was told that they would start reducing the zinc in diesel oil starting late 2014 -early 2015. The new emission laws were the reason for the change. I worked about 4 years on life testing diesel particulate filters. High zinc levels contaminated the filters. I remember that levels were to be reduced to somewhere around 700ppm for ZDDP. I had a talk several years ago with an engineer from Cummins (actually my supervisor at the time) and found that the reduced levels did help to extend life of the filters. At the time we were interested in particulate filter life and not really worried about engine life. But I do remember that we started to see some high pressure Bosch pump failures we had not seen before. There was concern that it may have been the result of the lower ZDDP levels.

[Katz427]

Well for what it's worth I just talked to our oil rep. I knew that the new oils were to be introduced but the rep tells me that they are not an "across the board" spec as in the past. There is to be a CK-4 which will be backward compatible with the current CJ-4 spec. The caveat is that zinc ZDDP has been reduced. The rep told me that there is another spec API FA-4. This oil is for the newest engines and less zinc. Also the current Shell Rotella has had the ZDDP reduced to about 1000 ppm. But as the existing stocks are depleted one best read the spec on the container. An interesting side note ..this rep told me he has been advised that NONE of these new oils are recommended for use in flat tappet engines by the manufacturers . So some research and careful selection are required.

[Katz427]

Damn looks like I 'm writing a book. I want to add that oil companies have service reps that completely freak out when one mentions "additives" and the adding of them to their formulations. I remember testing some stuff at different times but today you are admonished to not add anything. Oil formulations and the additive packages used are a very careful and tested package and I personally do not use any added supplement.

[Ford428CJ]

I use Amsoil myself in my old 390 in the Boat. Works extremely well. Be a little careful with these newer diesel oils.... They have cut the Ash in them. The Ash adds protection and help from build up acid levels in the oil. Yes it has Zinc but that's not the only protection you need!

[Ford428CJ]

Well for what it's worth I just talked to our oil rep. I knew that the new oils were to be introduced but the rep tells me that they are not an "across the board" spec as in the past. There is to be a CK-4 which will be backward compatible with the current CJ-4 spec. The caveat is that zinc ZDDP has been reduced. The rep told me that there is another spec API FA-4. This oil is for the newest engines and less zinc. Also the current Shell Rotella has had the ZDDP reduced to about 1000 ppm. But as the existing stocks are depleted one best read the spec on the container. An interesting side note ..this rep told me he has been advised that NONE of these new oils are recommended for use in flat tappet engines by the manufacturers . So some research and careful selection are required.

Shell still has 1300ppm of ZDDP BUT they cut the Ash content in the oil. Read my above statement.

[Toppa]

uh, lots of information.
so everyone is talking about zinc, what do I need it for? Which engine part will be protected by?

- in another post you find my oilpressure/valvetrain noise problem. could these issues be caused by riding standard 10w40 synt. oil? I guess this is in the engine at the moment...

[jayb]

Flat tappet lifters and gears on the cam and distributor are protected by the ZDDP additive.  Lots of cam and lifter failures have been attributed to the lack of ZDDP in modern oils.  If your noise ends up being a worn cam lobe and lifter, the oil could potentially be the reason.  My preference on oil is Valvoline VR-1.

[Katz427]

Because of the new additive packages alot changes. I agree with what Wes said that there is more to it than ZDDP. From a couple of engineers  (tribologist's)I have talked to in the last day the problem that is being seen now is that some of the new additives do not allow the ZDDP to adhere to the surface of the metal. Some of the new additives have a greater affinity for the metal surface than ZDDP and actually displace the ZDDP in practice. Of course not many engines today have flat tappet camshafts so this is not such a problem. But engine makers and oil companies are still in the testing of the new oils for older engines like we are talking about and the results so far have raised concerns for older "flat tappet engines".

[MrRupp]

Here in Colorado there is an old drag racing team by the name of Kenz & Lesile. They held the land speed record in the mid fifties with a mil ti engine flat head powered streamliner. There mostly known for there cammer powered Cougar, car number 777. Ron Lesile still has about 5 or 6 cammers still in crates.  When they retired from racing they started a distributor ship selling BG oil and fuel additives one that is fantastic for the older flat tappet engines is there BG MOA oil additive, I own an auto shop and put it in every oil change. It brings the lubricity up on any oil, including the synthetics. I have a 66 Mustang with a pretty healthy 351W with a solid cam and have had zero issues. Just my 2 cents. Clint

[Ford428CJ]

It's a good idea to pay attention.... The API rating of oil. That Amsoil has the old oil ratings. Good thing for flat tappet Cams. So no need to add any kind of additives to the oil. Just like Joe Gibbs, VR1 and so on. JMHO