Poll

Would you or someone you know buy a manifold base similar to the old PSE unit for $395?

No interest
1 (1.1%)
Maybe someday
25 (26.6%)
Would seriously consider it for my next FE intake purchase
25 (26.6%)
Definitely would purchase one
43 (45.7%)

Total Members Voted: 88

Author Topic: Market Demand for a new version of the PSE-style intake adapter?  (Read 39500 times)

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jayb

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So I've been giving serious consideration to manufacturing an updated version of the old PSE style intake manifold.  For anyone who is not familiar with this piece, it is designed as a "lower" intake manifold, and includes the valve cover rail, thermostat housing, distributor mounting hole, and valley area of the intake.  It is drilled and tapped so that it will bolt to a wedge FE head with some countersunk allen head bolts, and then a 351C intake will bolt onto the top, to form the "upper" intake manifold.  Here are some photos, from my book, of an original PSE intake manifold base:





This setup offers several advantages.  For one thing, it has a removable center plate that can be accessed once the upper manifold has been removed.  The center plate allows access to the lifter valley for inspection of lifters, without removing the valve covers or distributor, or breaking the water jacket.  It also allows lifter replacement without removing the distributor or breaking the water jacket.  Another advantage is that the 351C intakes currently available have been developed to a pretty high state, so they are excellent manifolds for a strong performance engine.  This was fairly clear in my dyno testing for the book, where even an old Edelbrock Torker intake on the PSE base did very well on most of the engines.  Also, the upper manifold can easily be swapped, again without removing the distributor, valve covers, or breaking the water jacket, so you can bolt on a 351C tunnel ram in about 20 minutes if you are so inclined.

I'd also put a couple of twists on this idea, to make it more versatile than the original PSE style manifold.  To start with, I'd CNC all the ports to fit whatever intake design was going to be used.  I'd also offer a version with straight extensions of the standard FE ports, and also one with no porting at all, for anyone who wanted to use the manifold base as a starting point for their own sheet metal intake.  I would also make the intake available in a high riser or tunnel port version, with an optional machining program.   Finally, I would plan my own FE specific intake manifold as a future project, to hopefully offer the highest performance option, rather than using existing 351C intakes.

I've been getting pricing for the required pattern tooling, and casting quotes for the manifolds themselves, and have everything I need to get going on this.  When I got started I was hoping to be able to sell the manifolds for $295, but with the pricing I've been getting it will need to be $395 for me to be able to build 100 of these things and break even with all the tooling costs and so forth.  I don't know if the market will pay this or not; after all, after spending $395 on the manifold base you would still have to spend another $350-$500 for a 351C intake to go on top.  You can buy an FE Victor for around $550, which would end up being a lot cheaper.  I don't want to do this if I can't sell at least 100 manifolds.

So what do you guys think?



Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

afret

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Re: Market Demand for a new version of the PSE-style intake adapter?
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2012, 11:54:42 PM »
That would be great.  I'd get at least a couple of them.

GJCAT427

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Re: Market Demand for a new version of the PSE-style intake adapter?
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2012, 05:35:33 AM »
Jay, just a thought, if a front cover could be designed that would`nt need to come off of the engine cam changes would be a breeze. This would complment the manifold. And yes I would be intrested in the manifold if you go into production either way.

mmason

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Re: Market Demand for a new version of the PSE-style intake adapter?
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2012, 07:06:06 AM »
I would buy one at that price.
Michael Mason

machoneman

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Re: Market Demand for a new version of the PSE-style intake adapter?
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2012, 07:32:59 AM »
Great idea and write-up Jay. I had to vote only maybe since I've too heavily invested in SBF's and frankly, as your SOHC adventures have been so inspiring, I'd rather go that way than the traditional FE way.

Methinks though you biggest issue here is purely research marketing, kinda' like Web SEO, plus reach and depth.  Getting this same info into Ford sites like Club Cobra, Vintage Mustang Forum, and other mainstream websites would yield IMHO the go/no go answer you seek.

Perhaps......our fellow posters here can spread the word (copy your text and pics and post them, with your permission of course) to other Ford websites? This would be quickly done, I'm sure!   
Bob Maag

jayb

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Re: Market Demand for a new version of the PSE-style intake adapter?
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2012, 08:01:18 AM »
Good idea, I had already planned to post a link on the FE Forum, but setting it up on Club Cobra makes a lot of sense...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

ScotiaFE

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Re: Market Demand for a new version of the PSE-style intake adapter?
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2012, 08:37:06 AM »
If you can hold that price I'd bet you could sell a few hundred.
I looked around for a PSE a while back and the prices were not to realistic.
One guy wanted $5000 for a new never used. I declined.
A lot of what we do is just for eye candy and that is good looking candy.
Beats the hell out of the Victor.
You could put together the whole package for just over 1300 which is not that bad.
Right in line with what it costs to do most 2X4 setups these days.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CMB-03-0189/

drdano

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Re: Market Demand for a new version of the PSE-style intake adapter?
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2012, 09:16:07 AM »
I'd buy one.  Gladly pay $400 to not have to go through the nightmare of pulling the intake to swap lifters.  Also opens the door to throwing a tunnel ram in the trunk and at the strip swapping out the upper manifold for some additional fun.  How feasible would a version with an oil fill tube be?  Would there be enough room with the upper intake? 

jayb

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Re: Market Demand for a new version of the PSE-style intake adapter?
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2012, 09:33:32 AM »
How feasible would a version with an oil fill tube be?  Would there be enough room with the upper intake?

I think it would depend on the upper intake, but it is certainly possible.  I will have to think about that...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

Joe-jdc

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Re: Market Demand for a new version of the PSE-style intake adapter?
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2012, 02:48:49 PM »
So how do we order 2 or more?  Definitely want 1.  Joe-JDC.

66sevets

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Re: Market Demand for a new version of the PSE-style intake adapter?
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2012, 03:09:12 PM »
I'll buy one! Steve
Steve M.

Qikbbstang

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Problems in predicting Market Demand for PSE-style intake adapter?
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2012, 03:09:34 PM »
Jay personally I have serious doubts that there are 100 or so 351C Tunnel Rams laying around where increased demand would not skyrocket prices.  I'd bet if just 20 guys all went looking for 351C tunnel rams and they all needed them in three months they'd raise the heck out of prices and some would still be empty handed at the end of three months. Unlike StreetMaster's there weren't thousands made over nearly 20 years and the Cleveland was a short lived motor.  There's tons of dirt cheap NASCAR 351W intakes in numerous varried head configurations but they are varried for heads/ports and of course all are only 1-4V.
      I've been wondering why Dove Mfg produced so very few of their cast FE Tunnel Rams in light of it's great results in your book. Seems to me a Knock-Off of that intake or even getting the orig molds from Dove Mfg of their FE Tunnel Ram would be a better gamble for it to pay-off.

Joe M

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Re: Market Demand for a new version of the PSE-style intake adapter?
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2012, 04:47:22 PM »
I'm going to start hoarding 351C intakes!  Nice thing is you can still buy them new.  Hope the Summit Racing link works:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WND-1994/?rtype=10
Figure $400 for the lower from Jay and $420 for this Weiand 1994.  Not too bad!

jayb

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Re: Problems in predicting Market Demand for PSE-style intake adapter?
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2012, 05:10:32 PM »
Jay personally I have serious doubts that there are 100 or so 351C Tunnel Rams laying around where increased demand would not skyrocket prices.

You can still buy them brand new, BB, in fact the one that I tested for my book was one I purchased brand new from Summit.  Pretty reasonably priced, too.
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

blueoval67

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Re: Market Demand for a new version of the PSE-style intake adapter?
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2012, 05:27:12 PM »
Great idea Jay. Would the Yates, CHI and, the other Australian high rise intakes be able to be used?
Dave Walters
427 Galaxie Registry