Whats a decent, well priced HYD roller lifter brand for my 390 stroker?

[mungus]

I am looking for a set of retro HYD roller lifters for my 68' Mustang 390GT fastback. It won't be a racer, just a well built fairly stock looking cruiser with some improved performance and efficiency desired. It might get a rare track day outing as I used to race and I'm not dead yet... But I think 6,000 RPM would be about it. Maybe 6.5 at a pinch.

Target is around 380-400 BHP and around 480 FT/LBs. (so far the set up is 431 Eagle stroker, OEM 730 cfm CJ428 carb, Blue Thunder PI type intake, FPA headers, Petronix 1 or 2, etc). Its the OEM, numbers correct 390 block.

I don't fit junk, especially mechanical internals. So avoid the cheap eBay stuff from China wherever possible. But I'm not Wells Fargo either... :-)

I was going to buy a complete COMP cams HYD roller cam set up from Summit, using their fairly mild XR270HR cam, but then I discovered my car came with a boxed up NOS Crane HYD lifter type cam of similar specs, and NOS Edelbrock adjustable timing set, NOS Crane ductile rockers, etc. So I've decided it would be a waste to not use them and I am now shopping for a set of decent, and reasonably priced HYD roller lifters as a retro upgrade. (still tossing up whether to use the ductile rockers or go for roller rockers)

Staying with Crane their HYD roller lifter offering is the priciest I've seen so far, at $820+, then you have the Chinese junk at $200 that frankly I won't touch... The consequences of a failure down there, are just too horrible to risk!

COMP cams Magnum HYD roller lifter sets sell for around $460-535 depending on where you buy.
Then there are the Howards at around $400. So what's a good brand that's not silly money?
I've read mixed reports on Howards, some quite scary, others say they are fine. Then some say they are just re-boxed Morel's anyway. And checking Morel's website they seem to offer a range of specs...

So what would the experienced builders recommend? A mid ranged Morel set? The COMP's? Or are the Howards quite OK?
As you've no doubt guessed $ are important, but so is reliability.

[blykins]

Morel......you'll find them for around $425-450.

One thing though....is this NOS Crane hydraulic lifter type cam that you mentioned a flat tappet or roller?  They are not compatible....

[mungus]

Morel......you'll find them for around $425-450.

One thing though....is this NOS Crane hydraulic lifter type cam that you mentioned a flat tappet or roller?  They are not compatible....

The NOS Crane camshaft (PN - 343941, Grind H272-2), was sold as a HYD flat tappet camshaft and came with a set of Crane HYD flat lifters. I wasn't aware they weren't compatible, possibly as manufacturers advertise their roller lifters as being "retro-fit" and this impression is refinforced by the fact that they also sell the sets of HYD roller lifters as a separate item. This gave me the idea (and I know others similarly fooled), that you can just drop a set of retro-fit HYD rollers into an FE with shorter pushrods and away you go! :-)

However having googled the issue you raised today I've seen that the 2 cam types are in fact ground differently, despite having the same lift & duration specs etc., so I'll have to ditch the idea and cough up for the complete COMP cams HYD roller kit. Damn it!

Thanks for raising the issue. Appreciated.

[CaptCobrajet]

Yes, the flat lifter cam has taper built into the lobe to make the lifter spin.  The roller CAM has no taper, but is flat for the roller to contact all the way across the lobe.  The 5325 Morels are right for what you describe, and can be bought for $375 plus ship.  The Comp hyd rollers have issues frequently.  Better to buy a cam and get the Morels.  There are higher end options from Morel, but overkill for what you describe.

[mungus]

That's a bummer as the COMP cams kit was just what I wanted. Quality brand and their kit has everything but the pushrods, easy...

No offence intended but may I ask what the issue with the COMP cams HYD roller lifters is? Is it really real or another one of those things someone on the internet claims (having maybe messed up, then blaming a component OR even just being made up for a reaction...) and then it grows legs and becomes an urban legend (myth).

I only ask as COMP rollers are nowhere near the cheapest, their brand name is OK I thought... :-)

I'll do some googling anyway and see what I can find. Thanks for the input.

UPDATE:

OK I did some googling and indeed I did find quite a few horror stories about their HYD Roller Lifters collapsing - YUK!
Although to be fair they were all from quite a few years ago and none were in FE's (that I could find anyway). Nor anything relating to PN 8934-16, which is what I would be buying. They only offer 1 HYD roller lifter set it seems.

So I have emailed COMP's tech department to see what they say...
Whether or not they will be honest enough to admit they had issues (and judging by the number of web stories, complete with photos, even youtube videos - they DID have issues), and then tell me what ITHO the current state of things is, who knows? It is a bummer as I need valve springs, retainers, seals etc etc, so their kit would have been a nice option. Far less guesswork etc...

[CaptCobrajet]

FEs are all we do.  No myth, brother.  After four or five problems with the lifters bleeding down, it was enough for me.  Some of the lifters would do fine, but when four or five out of sixteen bled down, on several engines, I had to do something else.  I deal with Comp almost daily, they are a good company...... I just don't use their hydraulic roller lifters.  They always tried to help, trading out the bad and sending more, but you can't make money with potluck, pulling manifolds back off of complete engines.  Not trying to bash Comp, just trying to save you some pain.   The Morels have always worked well.  I just ordered three Comp hydraulic roller cams today, and they will all have Morel rollers rolling on them.

[mungus]

Thanks for sharing your experiences. Your story plus the other forum's horror stories are enough for me.
I'll just have to buy my set up in pieces it seems. Morel lifters and COMP everything else... Such is life!

I am still wondering if any other reasonably priced brands are OK? Howards for example?

[blykins]

All items that are manufactured will have a defect rate.  It's just part of life.

I've used 2 sets of Comp FE hydraulic roller lifters without incident.  All other hydraulic roller lifters that I have used in my FE's (very high sample) have been Morel.  I'm going through a situation right now with a customer's 428CJ where I suspect several lifters are bleeding down while running and the lifters are Morel. 

When you use enough of a product, you will see some bad seeds from time to time.  Keep in mind that I'm not saying Morel is a bad product; I recommended them up above... Just saying, stuff happens. 

One thing to note is that the Morels have a slightly larger body diameter than most of the other brands.  If you're dealing with something like a Pond block, a Comp/Crane/etc. lifter will usually drop in with just a dingleberry hone through the bores to knock out the burrs and put a little hatch in them.  The Morels will usually take a bit more honing to get them to fit.  I would test fit a lifter before engine assembly, just in case...

As for the "retro-fit" nomenclature, that simply refers to retrofitting an engine with a hydraulic roller that never had one in the past. 

I would steer far away from "kits" that include springs, retainers, etc, etc.  These are universal kits and the manufacturer has no clue as to what your current valve spring install height is, what cylinder heads you're running, what displacement your engine is (which will affect how a camshaft makes your engine behave), etc.  It's best to contact an engine builder who is familiar with what you're working on, let them know all your details, and let them set you up with a complete package. 

[Barry_R]

My experience duplicate Blair's - multiple sets gave me trouble and I made the switch.  The Comp folks were always very good about handling things, but I just could not deal with the labor and effort anymore.  It is obvious that they did make a vendor change a couple years ago and they look different - but I have no reason to "go back" - the Morel product has been great with only a couple issues out of literally hundreds of sets in service.

[mbrunson427]

Call Denbeste Motorsports, ask for Joe. He'll get you some hydraulic roller lifters from Gatermens. The FE lifters aren't listed on their website, but they make them. They're cheaper as of right now because the company is fairly small at this point. I imagine after they start growing and piling on some overhead that they'll soon be just as expensive as the rest.

As mentioned above, you'll need to grab a new cam.
 
http://www.gatermanproducts.com/

Edit: They do actually show them on their website now. GP1004

[mungus]

My experience duplicate Blair's - multiple sets gave me trouble and I made the switch.  The Comp folks were always very good about handling things, but I just could not deal with the labor and effort anymore.  It is obvious that they did make a vendor change a couple years ago and they look different - but I have no reason to "go back" - the Morel product has been great with only a couple issues out of literally hundreds of sets in service.

Thanks Barry, as always your advice is appreciated. I'll get a set of Morel's.

[Falcon67]

I used a set from Howards on the wife's 351C - they seem to be doing OK.

[mungus]

Well I received a reply from COMP CAMS, and as one might guess they've denied that they've ever had problems with those HYD roller lifters. I guess from a commercial perspective it's hardly surprising, but given the number of stories in the web, even YouTube videos and assertions to the contrary by respected commercial FE specialist engine builders I personslly think it's a bit silly.

Honesty is IMHO, always the best policy. Especially when trying to maintain trust within a group of enthusiast customers. I'll happily buy most of my other valve train stuff from them, but not the hydraulic roller lifters...

[wayne]

Why not just use the crane cam and lifters you got with the car just break the cam in right may be all you need.Flat tappet cams are ok for what sounds like you want to do.

[mungus]

Why not just use the crane cam and lifters you got with the car just break the cam in right may be all you need.Flat tappet cams are ok for what sounds like you want to do.

I certainly did think of doing that. Would be way cheaper and yes, for sure it would still be an OK engine.  It also came with a new boxed Edelbrock double roller (3 key) gear set and a set of boxed Crane Ductile rockers, so I had the whole kit it you like. However while I've got it all apart I want to upgrade a bit, and HYD roller lifters are a win win. More power and  efficiency for no more nastier idle etc. I'll just sell the cam and followers on eBay and do the upgrade.

Like your thinking though.