TKO 500 into '63 Marauder

[chilly460]

Figured I'd do a brief write up of the Tremec TKO 500 swap into my '63 Marauder, as there seems to be a LOT of differing experiences/opinions on putting these trans into the early fullsize chassis.  Specifically, how to build the trans crossmember, floor mods, and clutch linkage modifications. 

Just a little background, I converted car to a T10 because I got it cheap with the pedal/clutch linkage setup.  Rebuilt the T10 and used that to get the car running and debugged, using an old Centerforce clutch I had laying around from my former '76 F250.  It performed fine and was sweet shifting, but that 2.3x first just killed the feel of the car.  I eventually threw a cheap 4.10 open rear in the car which finally made it work OK around town, but I drive the car a fair bit and it just killed the highway manners, 60mph cruise was around 2600rpm and with my exhaust setup just felt like a "hectic" ride. 

Here is the car


Engine is basic .030" 390, 750dp, Performer RPM manifold, bowl blended Edelbrocks, 270H Comp, FPA Tri Ys, ~9.5:1 cr.  Nice torquey combo, but still needed more SLR, but plenty of torque to pull 2000rpm cruise in OD so we'll see where I end up with rear gear, thinking the 4.10s will be perfect.  Rear tire is a 275/60/15. 

I bought a Quicktime bell, TKO 500, aluminum driveshaft, offset shifter from the classifieds on the Network54 site.  I would've gone for a 600 if buying new as the cost is the same, but this should work just fine for a street car, and initially I wanted to re-use the Centerforce clutch.  I also switched to an FRPP steel flywheel, didn't see the sense in putting an old cast iron flywheel in a $600 bellhousing. 

First thing noticed is that with the internal shift rails up top, the TKO is much more squared off and taller above the centerline than the T10, especially in the tailshaft area. 


The overall length is different between the transmissions.  However, with the different depth of bellhousings out there, there's no "definite" answer on whether the old driveshaft will work, as the package of trans length and bell depth will effect the total length. Therefore, best to just measure what you have and adjust accordingly.  I got an aluminum driveshaft in the bundle so I didn't have to modify my existing, but as I recall it wouldn've just needed 1-1.5" cust.

The mounting pad is further back on the TKO, and the bolt holes are at a slightly different center.  Also, the body of the gear case hangs "lower" on the TKO, meaning you'll have to notch your crossmember.  Not a big deal, but I'd say this is a definite on any swap.


Because the mounting pad is further back on the trans, there's a need to move the crossmember to the rear in the chassis.  I believe it was 2-3" but I did this last year, then moved houses, so don't have my notes.  Either way, not a huge issue.  There are several ways to move the mount, you can go bigtime and cut the mounts off the frame and relocate.  This would require widening the crossmember as the frame gets wider in that area as you move back, that seemed like a lot of work for no real benefits that I can see.  You can section the crossmember and move the mount back in the middle, or you can weld "tabs" on the crossmember mounts and move them back.  I chose the latter, less work and I was up against a time constraint last year to get the car mobile as I was moving.  If I did it again, I'd choose the second option and section the middle of the crossmember as I believe it's a "cleaner" install.  You'd likely have to mess with the Ebrake mount either way.  Pics show the small notch I had to take out of the crossmember flange to clear the main body of the trans, and the "tabs" I welded on to the crossmember to locate it back on the frame.




Also, if you have an early clutch fork (I reused the stock fork i had which has the wire clip), the pivot point is different than later bells/forks, so the pivot must be moved.  I measured it at ~3/8" outboard and redrilled. Again, tight timeline dictated using what I had, I'd definitely just buy a new fork with the spring clip retainer if doing this again.



Another minor tweak, as stated the trans mount dimension is different on the TKO, so had to drill/slot the trans mount to match.

[chilly460]

At this point, the trans was in the car, so I could check tunnel clearance, etc.  So, the trans WILL physically fit in the car with zero tunnel mods. It had enough room that it didn't even require hammering the tunnel. 


HOWEVER, lots of caveats.  The output shaft was now 1.5" lower than the T10 as the mounting pad heights are different.  So, the motor/trans are tilted down.  This also threw off the throttle linkage, and the clutch z bar were at an angle.  To be honest, I knew it wasn't the "right" thing to do, but I buttoned it up at this point because I was desperately trying to get the car to the FE reunion and had the house move the following week. 

Well, I didn't make it to the FE reunion for several reasons:
1) Throttle was sticky
2) Could not get sufficient air gap between clutch disk and flywheel
3) Suddenly, could not shift into fifth and reverse

However, I did drive the car to the new house versus trailering and can say the deeper first was a full transformation, didn't hit it hard at all but immediately nicer to drive. 

Starting in April of this year again, worked to resolve the issues. 

Research online indicated that the 5th/Reverse issue was in the shift fork for those gears.  Odd that it was working, then not.  So, what ultimately happened, is there is a pin that goes through the case and holds the 5th/reverse fork, and retains with an E clip.  This pin looks a lot like a fill plug.  I swear is wasn't me but either previous owner or a buddy may have popped the pin out thinking it was the fill, and knocked the clip off, then the shift fork worked it's way off the pin with all the banging around the trans received being mounted in/out of the car.  Either way, it was a minor fix and the trans is fine so all is well, plus it forced me to pull the trans and fix the car "right" instead of the halfass install I'd done in the name of getting it mobile.

First up, build a spacer to lift the trans mounting pad.  Issues are the tunnel sheetmetal, and there is a body crossmember that contacts the tailshaft (looks to be a shift rail support).  I couldn't quite get the full 1.5" increase without doing major crossmember surgery, so did a small section job on it and took what I could get, came in at 1 3/8" so I thought that was fine. 

This is the body crossmember, the photo is a bit of an illusion and makes the channel look like it's concave into the floor when it's actually convex.


The channel that makes up the crossmember is roughly 1/2", so I sectioned that portion and reinforced and that gave me enough for the 1 3/8" height change. 


The piece I cut out looked like this.  I cut the "legs" off and welded it back into the section, then boxed the ends to retain as much strength as possible.  My fitup was terrible from reusing the cut piece so welds are chunky, but it's under the car so no big deal.





At this point I could jack the trans up without interference with the crossmember, and check trans tunnel fit.  Lots of ways to go here as far as how to modify the tunnel, as you can cut around the topside of the trans and build a new cover.  I decided to just slit the trans tunnel and lift it to retain the stock round portion, and just fill the "slit" portion.  Seemed like less fabrication, and seemed to give the most room around the trans. 


Tunnel mods weren't too bad, I'm no pro fabricator so just overlapped the cuts, filled in the rear section to raise the tunnel, then formed a piece to finish off the tunnel transition at the rear. 

[gdaddy01]

thanks for sharing , your work looks good . feel better about mods the second time around ?

[My427stang]

Chilly,

Looks great and you will love 5th gear after you get used to shifting a TKO.  Remember, 3rd is NOT all the way over and up.  Once you get that in your head you will be able to shift it, until that, you will likely find the no man's land between 3rd and 5th when horsing around.

You'll see what I mean

One comment, 4.11s might be too much gear, that's the curse of a 500, 1st gear is a bit too steep when you gear for 5th and 5th is a little too tall if you gear for 1st.  Worth trying, because of the heavy car, but it has a compound ratio of 13.44, that's pretty steep in 1st, even with a heavy car and a tall tire.  That being said, all you have to do is pull the shifter and the issue goes away LOL

As one guy told me in my car, "It was like being in a tornado, then you pulled 5th and we just drove away"  LOL not a car guy needless to say, but I did take him on a white knuckle ride.  You should like the change

[chilly460]

thanks for sharing , your work looks good . feel better about mods the second time around ?

I definitely feel better now, doing it halfass the first time due to time constraints gnawed at me.  I will say I don't like cutting the car, but considering it's not rare and it was brought back from a rusty mess, I don't feel too bad. 

[chilly460]

Ross, is it like driving a T5?  I grew up in Fox bodies, so that's my frame of reference, never drove a T10/Toploader until I put the T10 in the Marauder.  I believe they're sort of the same as what I've heard of the Tremec, basically just use your palm to guide it up into 3rd. 

As far as the SLR, I'm with you.  Again, my frame of reference is the T5 with 3.35 first gear, mostly in 3.73 geared Fox bodies.  So, pretty deep at 12.49, and with a pretty short tire.  My '13 GT was 3.66x3.73 = 13.65, so the 3.27x4.10=13.4 in the Marauder won't be unfamiliar.  Obviously my 390 doesn't spin 7500 like the '13, so it's going to be a short rip in First for sure.  I'm sure it'll be overkill, but I am in the "city" more or less with a lot of lights to deal with so it'll be nice to get the big car rolling.  I have a Detroit Locker 3.73 center section ready to go if this is too deep. 

[My427stang]

The T5 shifts easier, the TKO is more notchy, very gated compared to a T5. However, it's not impossible as some people think, and if you get a little frustrated the Steeda TriAx works well to keep you directed to 3rd and not between 3rd and 5th

I learned to shift mine over time and just stayed stock TKO shifter, but when I first got it, my buddy would catch me as I did the 2 step when I missed third and had to try again

[4twennyAint]

I second the motion on Steeda Tri-Axe shifter for Tremec.  Excellent design.

[chilly460]

I'll have to identify what the shifter is that came with the car, it's an updated model, the original is in a box.  It feels pretty decent and gives the offset handle position to put it back where the T10 handle was.  Thanks for the tip on the TriAx.

[chilly460]

Finally updating after a lot of trial and error.  So, I had a very early bellhousing in the car which had a clutch fork opening around 10 o'clock.  I checked a bunch of bells at Carlisle and these seem to be pre 62 from what I can tell, didn't dig too much as I already sold the old bell.  The "normal" FE bells have a clutch fork opening down around 8 o'clock, so my bottom arm of the z bar was too short now to line up with the lower position of the clutch fork.  I tried to monkey around with it anyway and see if it would work even with the offset, as it's a major pain in the ass to pull the z bar in my car with the headers installed.  Long story short, wouldn't work as I could only get .015-020" of air gap at the clutch even extended the upper clutch linkage a bit to give it more throw. 

So, I pulled the z bar and extended the lower arm 3" to match the new position of the clutch fork.  Clearance is pretty tight between the block and headers where the extended arm hangs down, but it all clears.

[chilly460]

Here's the stocker, the lower arm on the right will be extended 3".  Due to clearance issues, I had to sort of "taper" it and flip the clutch rod pin over, hopefully pics will make sense.  With the longer arm, more force would be exerted on both arms so I gusseted while I was at it. 


I couldn't just lengthen the stock arm as it would run into the header, so offset it a bit using scraps I had laying around.




Still thought it looked a bit too spindly, so mocked up another full length gusset that would still clear the block. This was wider material which would also be stronger at the weld to the pivot.


Triple thickness now.  The stock weld where the arm met the pivot was starting to crack so I didn't want to mess around.


OK, again not accustomed to setting up MIG for thick stuff so wire speed was a little high, but it's good enough


Nothing a little grinder work can't fix


Put a couple gussets on the top arm as well


Used a Grade8 7/16" bolt as the new pin where the clutch pushrod is located, and it's "done".

[fuelbender]

Nice work. I had to cut my tunnel for the T56 to fit. 15 MPG at 75 MPH though!

[chilly460]

Thanks.  I drove the car for a short time with 3.00s in it and it got 15-16, since then I ran it with 3.50s and then 4.10s, I don't really check it as it's too depressing but last time it was around 9mpg.  The overdrive turns the 4.10 into effective 2.78 gear, so it should do 16mpg again.   

[My427stang]

Is it running yet?

[chilly460]

Hopefully this weekend.  I had surgery to fix a detached tricep during all this, so that slowed things down a bit.  I'm basically starter/exhaust/driveshaft away from it being up and running.