Anyone running elec w/p on the street?

[Riskit1234]

Are any of you running an electric water pump on the street?  And if so are you driving it a lot and hard?  I've searched this question on a couple different auto/performance forums and see so many different theories and stories.  I thought I'd ask it here.  The adapters in the classified section got me thinking about this. 

I have my motor at the shop and while I wait to hear if it gets the thumbs up for a build I wanted to check on supporting parts. 

I have a brand new Ed victor hi-flow water pump waiting to go on that new build but I have an older F100 and that truck is for sale to pay for this build.  As of today it needs a water pump and thought I'd use this new one ( I have it and its paid for).  If I use it I'm going to need to replace it down the road when the new motor is ready... say 6months ( I sure hope less but thats my time line). 

I can buy a NAPA water pump cheap or use the one I have and convince myself "well I was gonna go electric ANYWAY so It needed to go" so I don't feel guilty. 

One last spin... I just bought the March serpentine belt drive for the new aftermarket ac... So, if I went electric what do I do about the belt deal?

Simple fix, buy the NAPA use the Ed on the build along with the March set up and be happy..... or add something you know very little about and spend more money.... cause
It sure looks and sounds cool if it works.... let it run when the motor isn't running, with ac running at long idle in the south florida heat (electric flows at low RPM)... did I mention it looks pretty cool?

I also DO NOT want to melt the motor down cause I was a dumb a_ _

Just thought Id ask, thanks

What do you think?

[blykins]

I've got several customers that run electric water pumps on the street.  No issues.  These are 650-725 hp engines and get run hard.

[jayb]

I run my 1000 HP SOHC powered Shelby clone on the street with an electric CVR 55 gpm pump, with no issues.  Stays at 170 pretty much all the time, in traffic, on the freeway, whatever.  I do have a big aluminum radiator and a couple Spal electric fans, so there aren't any weak points in the cooling system.  I also have a 55 gpm Meziere pump for a 429-460 that I've adapted to the FE, on an 850 HP high riser; basically the same results.  Provided the rest of the cooling system is up to the drill, I don't think you'll have any issues cooling a high HP engine with an electric pump.

[thatdarncat]

I have a Meziere electric pump on my '67 Shelby 428 . I've had it about 10 years and mostly used it for drag racing, but I did take my car on Dragweek last year and the pump performed fine, no reliability issues, and that's with it running pretty much constantly a good 10 hours a day. I think it's a quality piece. I will say, my cooling system is not as robust as Jays and the Meziere pump has a lower GPH rating than the CVR. My car ran on the warm side, but I don't know that I can blame that on the pump, I didn't get to spend as much time testing some things before I went on Dragweek. I'm just trying to be upfront here. I bought my Meziere pump before Jay was making his adaptors and I plan on running the CVR on my next car with his adaptors, mostly because it will make hanging the alternator easier, but the extra GPH can't hurt. I only have an alternator and just one belt to run.

[Barry_R]

I've run a Meziere pump for decades.  Similar to Jay on cooling - a big Griffen radiator and a pair of Spal fans.  Never have had a cooling problem with this combination and I have driven in parades and in the Woodward cruise with various FE combinations - some fairly aggressive (750+HP).  My first pump failed a seal after about ten years and I replaced it with the exact same part - kept the old one after repair and use it as a backup.

[Riskit1234]

Well that about solves that question.  How do you run your alternator and accessories?  How do you drive them?  Did you build a custom tensioner set-up?  I have a new upgraded electrical system with 2 yellow tops, new 3G alternator and electric fan. I figure it's safe to run the electric water pump now after hearing your current use.   As I said in the original post I have a new after market ac set-up using the Sanden 7176 compressor .  I don't have power steering but need to power the alt and AC.

Thanks....

[Dumpling]

Aren't there electric drive AC compressors to go along with the electric water pumps and electric power steering?  If not, why not?

[jayb]

I'm usually running only the alternator, so factory brackets and adjustments work; the belt needs to be shorter because you aren't going around the water pump pulley anymore, but the factory adjustment allows tightening the belt.  I don't have A/C on any of my FE cars, so I'm not sure how that would complicate things...

[Falcon67]

I'm running a ProForm pump on my 302 street/strip door car.  I'll be using the same pump on the dragster with the Cleveland.  It's a 30 GPH unit, been on the 302 for 2 years without issues.  Bracketing is a trick, you just have to work that out.  I don't use air or PS, just an alternator.  I was able to use mostly factory brackets by making spacers on the lathe and flipping things around.  Running the pump includes two seasons on the drag strip and several car shows, poker runs, Cruise Night, etc.  The only heat issue I have is with the trans and that's because I run a 4200 stall converter in a street car.  You can only go so long putting around at 30 MPH before you have to give it a rest.  But with 4.11 street gears I leave with a 1.72 60', a good three to five tenths quicker than a regular street converter.

[Riskit1234]

I see on March's website they do sell a sbf electric water pump pulley set up and from the picture it looks like I might be able to modify it.  Maybe use the power steering brackets to run the AC

http://marchperformance.com/ford/ford-electric-water-pump/pulley-and-bracket-kits/ford-289-302-351w-electric-water-pump-ultra.html

There is an other set-up they offer as well.  Any imput on getting those to work.  I'm gonna call later today and see if some one at March has a work around...

Before I called tech I thought I'd ask here. I'm sure you all know more about the heads,layout more then most anyway..
Thanks

[Riskit1234]

"Only for small block"
My reply from March... I'm gonna spend some time tonight looking over available options and see what I can come up with.  If anyone has a work around please let me know...
Thanks for reading and help

[Falcon67]

There are usually at least two models - 30 GPH and around 50 GPH.  CSR, Meizere are two well regarded brands used on lost of high powered street/strip cars.  Note that it's not just about the pump - I run a good sized dual core aluminum radiator and dual Camaro LT1 fans.  I can drop just about anything in the car and keep it "cool".  Cool being defied as 190~200F, which I have found is best for temperature control and component wear. 

[Qikbbstang]

I'm confused with the amount of power consumed with an electric pump vs belt drive. The electric pump I presume runs the same rate/gpm at idle or 6,000. rpm so power consumption is the same regardless of rpm. The mechanical pump is linear with less power required to drive the pump at idle vs full tilt.
Finally the act of producing electric power to in turn power the electric pump vs simply driving the pump via belts.
I noticed the magazine reviews/comparo's elec vs mechanical run the pump off a battery not the alternator on their dyno.   

[jayb]

BB, here's my theory on this. The water pump has to flow some minimum amount of water when the engine is idling and the car is stopped in traffic on a hot day, so that the fans and the radiator can keep the engine cool.  This is the worst case situation for the pump, and I believe that because whenever I've had cooling problems with a vehicle, it has been from sitting in traffic on a hot day.  Once you are moving down the road, airflow through the radiator has increased and cooling is much more efficient.   At higher engine speeds the mechanical pump is flowing a lot more water, but it is not necessary, and this additional water flow is being restricted somewhat by the thermostat anyway.  Turning the factory water pump at the higher engine speed is not required, but since it is connected via a belt to the crank, it has no choice.  Waste of horsepower.  An electric pump only turns at the speed required to provide the necessary waterflow, no matter the speed of the engine.

Power in watts is related to power in HP like this:  750 Watts = 1 HP.  You can calculate electric power by multiplying current in amps by volts.  So, for an electric water pump that draws 12 amps of current, and is fed by a 14 volt supply, power in watts is 168, or 0.224 Horsepower to run the pump.  Of course, in the car the power has to come from the alternator, and the alternator is not 100% efficient.  Let's say it is 30% efficient in converting mechanical power to electrical power.  This means that the alternator requires 0.224/0.3, or about 0.75 horsepower to drive the electric water pump.

Meanwhile, your mechanical water pump chews up about 10 HP at high engine speeds, and you don't get any better cooling performance as a result.  Going to an electric pump is pretty much a no-brainer, IMO...

[Qikbbstang]

Wow I follow you Jay. When I think about my 1/2 HP well water pump it hits home how much power/flow that is.  Really odd the car Mfgs don't run electric pumps to help engine efficiency/fuel mileage.  IS there a single production car today that runs an electric pump?
Heck they even use those ratcheting pulleys on alternators now that let the ALT free-wheel on shifts.
    That much power (5-10HP)  would seem irresistible for Ford SVT engineers to pass up on new GT350's and FORD GTs and not reach for an electric pump LOL not to mention the GT350s near 8,000 RPM motor. Ditto the variable speed electric pump....would seem a natural for cars.  Utility Co's even use variable speed drives pumping sewage today because of the energy savings.