Engine Masters Started Today!

[jayb]

It was the Hemi fest today,and Bischoff's entry won with a 700 HP Gen III hemi.

http://www.hotrod.com/events/1510-700hp-gen-iii-takes-the-hemi-crown/

I'm looking forward to seeing how Royce's MEL does, and of course how Barry R's FE does.  Not sure which day Royce runs, but I'm pretty sure Barry runs on Friday.

The format this year, with five separate classes, is a little weird...

[thatdarncat]

I thought Royce said his team runs Thursday. Good luck to them both.

[cjshaker]

Yes, Royce runs Thursday. I'm hoping to be able to get in to at least watch, if not give him a hand if he needs it. I think there needs to be a flathead class

[Barry_R]

Just finishing up on dyno work with mine.
Not a very exotic piece this year (time and money...).
Scat 4.25 crank, Scat 6.7 BBC rods, Mahle catalog pistons with modifications.
Heads are mine with CNC and some tweaking.
Manifold is a Victor 4500 EFI initially done up by Joe Craine - subsequently altered by John Marcella as we worked on an EFI throttle body deal.

After 40 some pulls with the EFI trying mixture, timing, collectors, various fueling strategies and such I went and bolted my old 4500 QFT Dominator on it.  I have done this every year "just to see" what happened.  Every year the EFI has trounced the carb.  Until now.  The first carbed pull was really fat and pretty close.  I pulled a ton of jet and ran again - it was now a dead heat.  Pulled more jet yet (getting ridiculous but you go where the motor tells you to) and it responded with the best pull of the day, clearly beating the EFI system within a total of three pulls.

Dammit Jim.
Now I need to remove a bunch of wires and lines...and try some carb spacers.

It won't be a winner, but its a nice enough piece - made 1.37 TQ per cube and 1.53 HP per cube so far.

[TomP]

Good luck Barry. I am curious to see Thursday stuff too.

[machoneman]

Good luck Barry!

Say, afterwards when you get a chance, your results on the carb being noticeably better than EFI are interesting and unusual. Any ideas on why? 

[blykins]

Good luck to you Barry! 

[jayb]

Good luck at the event, Barry.  The results with the carb are interesting.  From what I have been told, one advantage of the carb over EFI is that with the fuel atomizing at the carb, there is more time for the fuel to cool the A/F mix, and more time for it to atomize into smaller droplets, as compared to an EFI setup where the fuel is injected closer to the port.  There is a group of racers who swear that a carb will always outperform an EFI setup, and another group who says the opposite, but I think the motor has some say in this too 

[Stangman]

Good luck Barry we will be watching

[cobracammer]

Go Barry!  I hear there will soon be some vacancies at VW in their engine design dept.... Lol

[57 lima bean]

A good day for Ford....

http://www.hotrod.com/events/1510-ford-sweeps-hot-rods-spec-small-block-class-at-2015-amsoil-engine-masters-challenge/

[Barry_R]

Engine is in the back of my truck and I am ready to head out to Lima in the AM.
I run on Friday, so I am looking forward to seeing the Y blocks do their thing tomorrow.

I spent yesterday making a set of larger headers (2" straight instead of my 1.75-2.00 step).  Tried them out this morning, along with some swoopy looking NASCAR tri-Y merge collectors.  Changed the entire power curve - filled in a big "crater", but lost a ton mid-range and top.  Score ended up within single digits.  Just found yet another way to get to the same place.

If anybody wants to keep track the engine packages out this way "at home"...

EFI and old headers - peak torque 654, peak horsepower 738
Carb and old headers - peak torque 664, peak horsepower 726 (1.37 TQ/cube)
Carb and new headers - peak torque 652, peak horsepower 716

Looking at this you would assume that the scores would be very different - but in the 4000 RPM wide scoring range for Engine Masters they end up within 10-20 points of each other.  They repeat in the 2450-2470 ranges for score.  Not looking like a winner to me but you have to run the race to know how it comes out.

One "fun fact" is that the second combination has been repeating at 550+ torque at 3000 before dropping into a dip.  The new headers cost it over 20 pounds at 3000 but almost completely eliminated the customary drop off.

What to do...

[plovett]

Are the 2" headers fairly unequal length?  I could be wrong, but I think unequal length primaries might hurt peak numbers, but soften the dips, and maybe end up with a similar average number.   It sounds like you already have the points calculated.  Is there any reason to believe one of the combinations might do better at the EMC dyno with the specific conditions there?

I remember back in the 90's "equal length" header primaries was a big selling point.  I think I remember 5.0 Ford header primaries doing crazy looking loops to get the lengths the same.  It's funny how every 20 years or so, it seems like everything changes and the previous generation was "wrong".  Until it's "right" again, that is.

Good luck!

paulie

[ec164]

What to do...    Sounds like maybe shorten the 1.875 some see what happens...........Al

[Qikbbstang]

It's always confused me hearing the need for "equal" primary tubes and knowing with a V8 configuration certain cylinders are fighting each other in the plenum. To merrily believe "equal" headers (notice I dod not say length or diameter)  are a panacea and ignore the fact that header pulses can easily reach all the way up into the plenum on a single plain is. To me it seems "ideal" headers would balance the charges in the plenum or at least try for that direction by varying individual tube lengths and diameters to truly balance/optimize power.