lost oil pressure due to filter change?

[Autoholic]

In terms of spending money, here are my thoughts...

1. It doesn't cost all that much to tear down and rebuild a motor. You're spending money on gaskets and hardware, if everything is ok.

2. Tearing down and rebuilding the motor when you see something that is concerning will save you money in the long run. Running the engine until it destroys itself results in needing a whole new motor.

Here is a rule of thumb for oil pressure. 10 PSI per 1000 RPM. I keep running into this as being the proper amount of oil pressure needed based off of your RPM.

Since you will be rebuilding the engine, take your time to make sure the right parts are used and it is built right. You could even use this as an opportunity to modify the displacement, up or down. However I think you are near the top of what is possible in a FE. At the very least, you can check all of the oil passages, de-burr holes and massage / file them to line up better.

[Nightmist66]

The 10psi per 1000rpm is a decent rule of thumb, but I feel anything over 60-65psi is wasted and is costing horspower. JMO

[Autoholic]

Not if you are running a high RPM engine, however I do agree that up to say 7 or 8000 rpm, the need is linear and then it tapers off to say 5 PSI per each additional 1000 RPM. Motorcycle engines run to 14,000 RPM regularly and I don't think they are using 140 PSI, but I don't know all the ins and outs of motorcycles. For the needs of most pushrod engines, I would say the 10 PSI per 1000 RPM is spot on.

[babybolt]

The last time I had an engine like that, where the bearings are worn down and smooth, was an engine that suffered a mechanical fuel pump failure.  The pump diaphragm tears slightly and fuel gets into the oil.  The gas trashes the bearings and rings very quickly.

[RJP]

Check the back side of the main bearing. There should be some stamped info. If they are orig FoMoCo bearings they will have  "Ford"  or FoMoCo stamped in the shell. There also should be a date, some had 'em, some didn't.  Aftermarket [rebuilt engine] should have the brand or some other stamping indicating who made 'em. As I posted passenger car FE main bearings have a 360deg groove, your lower bearing does not. Tells me it is either a truck [FT engine] or someone found a rare set of bearings. On worn engines oil pressure is overrated  When I got my 66 Galaxie/428 the engine had no oil pressure at hot/idle and only about 20-25 lbs at freeway speed. No knocks, rattles, ticking or other strange noises, engine ran great but it was that annoying red light on the dash when I came to a stop. No flickering, just a solid red light. Being the skeptic I am I didn't believe that red light and put a known accurate mechanical gauge on the engine...Damn, should have believed that little red light and saved me all the trouble of installing that gauge...It was right, gauge needle lay on the pin as if the engine was not running. Being the cheap bastard I am I dropped the pan, rolled a set of mains in as well as rod bearings and a new Melling oil pump. Problem solved, 30-35 lbs idle/hot and 60-65 lbs at freeway speed. Ran it like that until it was time to go thru the engine.

[Landlubberatsea]

Babybolt - thanks for info. I will check the pump when I take the engine apart.
RJP - interesting info, I will check the bearings when I get home in a couple of weeks as well as the cast no of the block.
If it turns out to be a FT, will that have any affect on my stroker plans i.e. is it still suitable for 445 cui?

Damn this is interesting, I wish I was home so I could lift out the engine right away

[RJP]

Actually the MD or HD FT block would be preferred for a stroker. FTs generally are cast a little heavier and core shift was minimized as these engines had to survive for hundreds of thousands of miles under much more severe conditions than a FE passenger engine. Even though most if not all FT engines were governed to 4400-4500 rpm some would be run at wide open throttle a large percentage of their service life and made to live on the cheapest gas available as they only got 4-5 mpg loaded. Most FT blocks were cast using better iron alloy, [more manganese & tin if my information is correct]  all should have the 3 rib crank webbing, a big plus with a stroked engine.  FT heads suck, more suited as a quality door stop or yacht mooring material. Small valves, choked down intake port [Ford's way of limiting rpm] and a big combustion chambers, IIRC about 78-81cc as FT engines only had about 7.2 to 1 compression ratio, large chambers and a very deep dish 4 ring piston. Heads will not interchange with a passenger car intake manifold as the heat riser is much different than pass. car heads. Exhaust valves had positive rotators and seats were hardened inserts. MD-HD Cranks were steel.

[Landlubberatsea]

Ok, so a FT block could actually be the thing to hope for then. I have some info on the other parts, heads are C8AE-H and intake is C6AE 9425 G. Saw the number on the block when I took of the pan and I believe it started with C7.
If it turns out to be a FT will there be any problem with fitting 60069 heads to it?

[Qikbbstang]

One heck of an amusing thread.  I can't help but laugh at the 15,000rpm not requiring 150psi.  A key purpose of more oil pressure as the revs go up is to overcome the centrifugal force of oil slung out of the bearings. Engines with large crankshaft bearing diameters require more oil pressure to overcome that force, small crank diameter dimensions are content with less pressure.
          The use of short filters is exponentially wrong. Less media means higher delta-p, higher velocity through the media, lower efficiency at capturing/retaining particles etc   
     

[cjshaker]

I'm late to the party here, but I will be #6 (or is it #7, 8, 9 or 10?) to add that Fram filters are J.U.N.K.!!

2 years ago, I literally had one where the guts blew apart internally and stopped ALL oil pressure (it wasn't my car). I couldn't figure out why. I thought maybe the oil pump had failed, but after starting it the 2nd time, pressure suddenly reappeared. After doing an oil and filter change, I found the damaged filter had blown apart and sent filter material throughout the engine. The pump built pressure until the plugged filter literally just collapsed and disintegrated. The old filter was only a few months old and had very little miles on the oil change. Within a year the engine was junk, rods knocking like crazy.

I saved and still have that filter so I can show everybody I know, and warn them to NEVER USE A FRAM FILTER!!!

[Nightmist66]

I have seen several people cut open brand new Fram filters to find that where the pleat ends join with a metal clamp, one side slid during assembly and you can look right through the end gap. How effective is that for filtering? I think the micron rating just went up.....

[Autoholic]

As for oil filter research, I'll just leave this here. You can check out each filter and how it is constructed.

http://www.gmtruckcentral.com/articles/oilfilterstudy.html

[Qikbbstang]

cjshaker you ought to contact Fram and document your losses. You are certainly deserving of a replacement motor and labor etc. By all means contact your auto parts supplier and inform them you have had an engine failure due to a defective filter and you want restitution.  Worst I could see is you may need to file small claims to get their attention.

Very unusual to have anyone's filter fail.  I'm totally stumped trying to understand your explanation of what happened.  Most confusing oil always flows from the outside of the element to the inside, then out the center tube and on to the bearings etc. The center tube being perforated metal is designed to withstand high differential pressure before collapse/implosion. The center tube supports the pleated media around it.  This would mean in your case the filter media imploded (it can not explode -see below) which tends to blind thing off badly as the filter media shreds/bits etc would be literally extruded through the engines oil passages and on into the bearings, lifters rockers etc.  How in hell an engine's oil system could ingest filter media and "return to normal oil pressure" to me is impossible - you'd have filter media stuffed like packing seal material into the bearings. To me there's no friggen motor on earth that could survive/run with wads of filter media stuffed into its bearings, hyd lifters, rockers etc..  How any motor would re-start and return to normal pressure after the above "packing job" defies logic.  IF by some wacky ass screw up and the filter, any filter is flowed backwards yes the element would certainly explode - filters do not flow ass-backwards and that indeed would rupture/explode the element inside the can in short order. How about taking some pics and posting them to show everyone?..... (you dam well need to send pics to Fram anyway)  I presume you have pictures of the bearings stuffed with the remnants of the exploded filter and those should be posted also.

Re: "2 years ago, I literally had one where the guts blew apart internally and stopped ALL oil pressure (it wasn't my car). I couldn't figure out why. I thought maybe the oil pump had failed, but after starting it the 2nd time, pressure suddenly reappeared. After doing an oil and filter change, I found the damaged filter had blown apart and sent filter material throughout the engine. The pump built pressure until the plugged filter literally just collapsed and disintegrated. The old filter was only a few months old and had very little miles on the oil change. Within a year the engine was junk, rods knocking like crazy.

I saved and still have that filter so I can show everybody I know, and warn them to NEVER USE A FRAM FILTER!!!

[cjshaker]

Let me describe it clearer, BB. The van lost all oil pressure. From what I see of the filter, somehow the media inside plugged solid. The only thing I can think of is cheap media. I believe it was Quaker State that had a lawsuit some years back due to it having some sort of parafin in its media and somehow it would plug up. Anyway, it must have built enough internal pressure that it COLLAPSED internally and immediately restored oil pressure, sending chunks of media into the oil stream. And I assure you that the VANS gauge went right back to normal, so it wasn't some $100 gauge that read in detailed pounds. Remember, an oil sending unit is typically very near the filter, so it's reading pressure directly from the pump and not somewhere down the oils path. When I pulled it off, there were big chunks of the paper like media sitting on the top of the center port, that I could literally pull out very easily with my fingers. So yes, it didn't explode, but imploded. Bad choice of words on my part.

I have not cut the filter apart, but it's easy to see the internal destruction of the filter. I've always been interested to see what it looks like inside, so I might just cut it open and take some pictures and post them for all to see.

[Qikbbstang]

Total confusion trying to comprehend how/why there could be filter media that managed to extrude itself through the filters perforated metal center core tube and be as you stated: "big chunks of the paper like media sitting on the top of the center port, that I could literally pull out very easily with my fingers."
    Considering that the nipple in the block/filter adaptor screws into that plate in the spin on flange of the filter I can only figure you had a major filter failure. I'm serious I would not cut that filter open because you have it's ruptured guts hanging out of the outlet. This is friggen unheard of. You need to think about the manufacturer paying to totally rebuild your motor