solid roller cam selection

[fekbmax]

Has anyone had any experience with    Cam Research,    the ford cam specialist ?  Without having the benefits of testing different cams on a dyno or having a good simulation program whats the best way to chose the very Best cam you can for your particular application. ?  Talk to the cam manufacturers tech and give them all the info possable and let Them make a recommendation ?  Sometimes they make you feel like there just looking in a catalog and putting there finger on something. Maybe talking to custom cam grinders would be better ?  I feel like some of the awesome Fe engine builders would be a better choose but sometimes it seems they also may be just choosing something in general as well and I get there all very busy and if there not providing services directly for you then there not going to be as. Incline to take the time. Maybe be brave enough to post all my specs here and see if anyone has a strong openion of there own.. I'm just throwing it out there. Just fishing. Theres alto of great minds on this site, no doubt about it and tons of knowledge.  I have a cam and have mentioned it to a few guys and what I get in responce is "that should work OK".
I guess what I'm getting at is what's you guys thoughts on the best way to choose the right cam the first time.. ?

[ScotiaFE]

I'll show you mine. 
I say put it out there, I can't think of a better place to ask for real input.

[blykins]

Contact an engine builder with lots of experience with the engine you're working on.  Don't waste your time with the cam "tech lines".  Call 5-6 of them and ask if they've ever seen an FE.  ;-)  You will find that most of the off-the-shelf FE cams are the typical 6° duration split, 110 LSA, 106 ICL.  Sure, that can work for a lot of stuff, but there are certain combinations that just need something different. 

The guys who can help the most are the ones who screw together FE's every day....and there's a handful of us on here.   So ask away. 

BTW, most of us are "custom cam grinders" in the sense that we have access to lobe catalogs from the various manufacturers and we hand-pick the lobes based on the needs/wants...then we just have a cam manufacturer grind it and away we go. 

[cjshaker]

Don't waste your time with the cam "tech lines". 

x2, 3 and 4 on that statement. The LAST person I'd ask for advice would be someone from their tech line. With few exceptions, most are younger kids being payed a minimal wage to read recommendations from a book, based on small block and big block chevys to boot.

If looking for a general recommendation for a stocked cam, I'd ask here. If something for a specific combo that is race dedicated, I'd ask one of the engine guys here, or all of them.

[cammerfe]

When you ask a cam company to offer a recommendation, generic input information will yield a generic result. If you can give them flow-at-lift figures as well as intended use they'll be much better equipped to do a good job for you. Just sayin'.

KS

[fekbmax]

Ok fellas, here it is. You can poke fun at me if you wish but this is what I have and I'm not looking to change any major parts because I'll be putting the pond big cube engine together in a year or so.. pour boy racing you know. I'd like some input on a good solid roller cam and lifters and also a 4150 carb recommendation.  I'll be glad to share any other info needed and hope that if I'm lucky enough one of you engine builders will help me out a bit. I'd like to get as close as I can to getting the right cam the first time.

*4.140 bore
*4.125 stroke
*6.535  rod
*14/1 pistons
*Edalbrock/kuntz cnc heads, stock port locations. Flow numbers available.
 *Titanium intake and exhaust valves, 1.750 EX and 2.250 IN
*Ported fe power adapter with either funnel Web intake/carb ? or simi fabricated (fab plenum with tunnel ram runners) duel re worked 660 carbs (715cfm each) or matched predator's setup.
*2-1/8" KB max headers 4" collectors
*Msd crank trigger + locked timing.
*Jerico clutch less 4 speed, (may be switching to a jeffco soon)
*Tube chassis mild steel certified to 7.50
*14"×32" MT tire
*2510lb with driver
*75% 1/8th mile use
*25% 1/4 mile use
*Possibly up to 250hp shot of NOS but want to obtain as much hp/tk from engine alone. 
*7200 - 7600 max rpm 

I'm open to making minor changes and any advice at all.
I'll take my punches now, just try an hit above the belt.
Thanks guys..

[blykins]

Need flow numbers....

[jayb]

Keith,you said max RPM of 7200-7600; where are you planning to shift?  If you shifted at 7200 and ran through the traps at 7400-7600, I'd say you want to pick a cam that will peak in horsepower around 6700 RPM or so.  With 444 cubes, I'd be looking at a 266-272 intake duration @ 0.050".  The flow numbers will help with figuring out lift and the exhaust lobe.

[e philpott]

what cubes will the Pond engine have ??

[fekbmax]

Jay, Brent ,
here are the flow numbers on the heads,

Intake flow                Exhaust flow
.300 - 216cfm             .300 - 160cfm
.400 - 267cfm             .400 - 197cfm   
.500 - 309cfm             .500 - 231
.600 - 338cfm             .600 - 262
.700 - 361cfm             .700 - 279
.800 - 379cfm             .800 - 288
.900 - 390cfm             .900 - 292
1.      - 399cfm            1.     - 293

Intake flowed with clay orifice, Exhaust flowed with no pipe. these heads had been hand ported a couple times in the past as i have had them a very long time so there were a few very small places that the CNC didn't hit which probably plays into the numbers.
Jay, i maybe shouldn't have set an RPM limit as of yet, im open to spinning it more or less. id like to get the most power+torque out of the combination and maybe let that dictate my shift and max rpm. i think my biggest handicap is the factory block. its a good block with decently thick cylinder walls even after a .090 bore, its filled to within 1-1/2" of the deck, has the re enforced webbing, im using pro-gram cross-bolt caps and a concept design main girdle. i will be using my own priority main oiling setup as well.  pistons are venola custom , rods are manely aluminum (shelf), crank is a scat steel. my bob weight comes in at 1904 grams. anything else i can help with ill be happy to. i plan on documenting the build here very soon once i start putting it together. that is as long as i don't get to many laughs, LOL..
thanks so much guys for any help you may give. also i have a cam here but id rather wait and see what you guys think before i reveal what it is because the few people i have talked to (mostly the so called cam techs) once i tell them what i have i always get the "oh that should work" and yeah idk id rather know what you guys think.
thanks again for any and all help.

not sure yet on the pond block CID, more piston, more stroke and more throw lol. to be determined .. one step at a time for pore boy racing..

[XR7]

I think I'll make some popcorn...    this should get real interesting! 

 No offense to your build meant FE MAX, just talking about those flow numbers for a "stock port location" MR head.

As for a cam... I would say something around mid to upper 270's on the intake lobe, maybe around .800 lift, and mid to upper 280's on the exhaust at around .760 lift on a 109 or 110 should work nicely.

With your light bobweight, (and lightweight car) that thing should really rev/accelerate quick!

[e philpott]

Thor , he did say Kuntz .... so those numbers could very well be legit

[fekbmax]

i can only supply the numbers i have been given. we flowed one random intake and one random exhaust on Wiz-Bangs super flow 600  flow bench back on 9-5-15 and both of those were within 3 to 4 cfm of the numbers Kuntz had given me across the board. i have no reason not to believe Kuntz but also i personally have never operated a flow bench so i couldn't say one way or the other if either operator manipulated the numbers.

[blykins]

There's a lot more to it than flow.....velocity is just as (if not more) important.  Just going off of the numbers laid out before us, mid 260's at .050" duration will get you a 7000 rpm hp peak with 445 inches and hitting at around .700" lift. 

Do you know the port volume?  I would imagine it's on the large side...

With an 80% intake/exhaust ratio, you don't need a big duration split....3-4° will work. 

If I were doing something like this and weren't wanting super stock valve lift, I'd use a pair of Comp RZ lobes, 264/268 @ .050", .757"/.760" lift, and shorten the LSA up to help the exhaust scavenge the big intake port.....probably a 107-108 LSA.  The shorter rod will help you here too, but I imagine that intake port is HUGE. 

That's where I would head.....your mileage may vary. 

[CaptCobrajet]

Why don't you call Jim and get a cam from him?  The ONLY way to know where the rpm range will land with a "given" duration number is to run a cam or two with your exact induction set-up, and bore and stroke, and get some idea of where it will shake out.  Bore, stroke, engine size, throat diameter, valve size, port and manifold cross-section, runner length, and plenum volume......and a few more things I won't go into, will all move where the peaks occur, and how far apart they will be.  You also need to think about some of the lower lift points, and throw the .8, .9, and 1-inch lift numbers out the window, as long as they don't back up after .750.....

Jim is a pretty smart cookie, and I would wager that he knows what the heads like, if he has worked with them on engines in the past.  JMO.

If you plan to consider the flow from .500-up only, you will need at least a 4.5 bore, 3.5-ish stroke, short/fat intake runners, and a tach that goes to 12000.