Author Topic: Interesting pictures from Tom M...  (Read 23017 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

jayb

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7436
    • View Profile
    • FE Power
Interesting pictures from Tom M...
« on: July 15, 2015, 03:34:43 PM »
Tom forwarded these pictures for me to post.  Some of them are kind of blurry, but you get the general drift of what's going on.  I like the Holman Moody dyno data, and what looks like some kind of a magneto, plus the SOHC stuff.  Tom has promised to come on and give a description of what we're looking at here...



















Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

Joe-JDC

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1502
  • Truth stands on its own merit.
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting pictures from Tom M...
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2015, 03:45:01 PM »
Hope his posts don't turn into an argument like on the FE forum.  Why would there be fuzzy pictures of parts and clear picture of magazine article in notebook?  Sounds fishy to some of us who have been following his posts.  Sorry, Jay, but I am not impressed until we find out who he really is, and his credentials.  I would hate for controversy to come to your forum like some of the posts on Network 54.  Joe-JDC
Joe-JDC '70GT-500

jayb

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7436
    • View Profile
    • FE Power
Re: Interesting pictures from Tom M...
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2015, 03:52:19 PM »
We'll make sure that doesn't happen here, Joe  ;)  I think the pics are kind of cool, myself, with the old SOHC blower manifold and the Holman Moody dyno data.  Those SOHC cams say Crane Nitro 660 right on them, which is also kind of cool.  That stuff is all FE related, and I've never seen most of it before...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

lovehamr

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 209
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting pictures from Tom M...
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2015, 06:58:17 PM »
I think the pics are cool regardless of who they're from.  I just want more and better ones! :D

My427stang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3964
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting pictures from Tom M...
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2015, 08:47:11 PM »
I think the pics are cool regardless of who they're from.  I just want more and better ones! :D

Same here!
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

Ford428CJ

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 384
  • FE FREAK!
    • View Profile
    • Hillside Auto
Re: Interesting pictures from Tom M...
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2015, 10:22:48 PM »
Very cool to see stuff like that!
Wes Adams FORD428CJ 
Hillside Auto- Custom Curved, Blueprinted Distributors
03 F-250 Crew Cab 4x4 6.0 and 35's
64 Falcon 428FE
55 FORD Truck 4-link Rides on air with 428FE

jayb

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7436
    • View Profile
    • FE Power
Re: Interesting pictures from Tom M...
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2015, 10:42:43 AM »
Here's a few more that Tom sent me.  The first two are of an FE girdle that Tom says is from back in the day.  This one is interesting because the main caps do not bolt through the girdle, so maybe no special machining is required on the block?  Very interesting, and I wonder how well it could work as compared to a girdle with the caps bolted through.  Also some 428CJ Holman Moody dyno data, from January 2, 1969, and a few other shots:













« Last Edit: July 16, 2015, 12:50:06 PM by jayb »
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

machoneman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3856
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting pictures from Tom M...
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2015, 11:04:03 AM »
I think that girdle was made solely for the fuel dragster/funny car crowd. Tom would know.
Bob Maag

blykins

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4858
    • View Profile
    • Lykins Motorsports
Re: Interesting pictures from Tom M...
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2015, 11:10:27 AM »
Wonder how long the sweeps were on that 428 dyno?  I've never seen an engine pickup 20 degrees of oil temp unless it was hurt....
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
Instagram:  brentlykinsmotorsports
YouTube:  Lykins Motorsports

HolmanMoodyStroppeGang

  • Guest
Re: Interesting pictures from Tom M...
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2015, 11:15:54 AM »
Thanks a lot Jay for all that you do and for all that you have done.   

The first comment is to Joe C.  Dear Joe, I recall when a few mean guys really gave you grief on 54 and I was one of many who stood up for you.  We exchanged pleasant emails too and I offered to send you work, etc.  You were moving and I enjoyed the exchange.  You resigned from 54 and I was one of many who missed your brains.  I rarely see you there now and have enjoyed seeing your thinking here.  There is a point in many professionals career where they have to limit the time that a few very mean and wrong people can demand of you by cyber bashing, fabrications, off topic lies, and so on.

Here is what changed my mind.   The people at 54 deleted posts by several mean guys, offered to block a few, and thanked me sincerely for our work there.  In fact, a kind nice man said he has it in a book or keeps it filed.  But I am told some level of fighting and arguing and so on is fine and that is no way to recall the old Ford Race teams we were with.   I will still try to add content, but when some supposed expert claims the old shop, that won and won for FORD and MERC, caused a horrible death, despite the same set up winning the USAC Championship that year, that is nuts.  I will be there very rarely for a while.   The Administrater himself apologized for the cyber trolling, and suggested I work here.   


When you say 'our' Forum, that is real nice.  I have tried to post here as time allows, on and off, about 2 years.   Jay and I exchange email and he is the class of the field.  All it took was having bashers steal 2 days from me to argue nonsense there to figure out that the fighting is just for their entertainment or whatever. Jay and I talked, he shed wonderful light on these problems, to say thank, here is some rare FORD data.

I had a change of mind while this slander campaign unfolded by coming here to just think engines.   I log on here and ,ahhhhhhhhhh,,,  Engineering, builds, tune ups, power, racing, designs, smart guys, nice guys, fun guys.   This is much more like our past teams. A group of real good guys, combining experience, to do well and win.

I have hundreds of emails from 54 members who never posted and agree with the above.  They also usually ask me to please not stop posting due to 2 or 3 mean guys.  For now, I will try to add a little here as time allows.  I value every builder here, and believe the old Ford guys are all great.  I am no better or worse than any car guy, I look up to so many, and down toward none.

Thanks for all you do Joe.  I removed the Vet deal for you since I re registered and wish you the best.  Recall Joe, I sent you the highest praise I had once, said you reminded me of Warren Brownfield a bit. He invented the flow bench and did the forst ones at Edelbrock. He did Dyno Don's best SOHC heads too

We are fine, my guys are so thankful, we laugh, race and try. Thanks for the note.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2015, 11:23:29 AM by HolmanMoodyStroppeGang »

BH107

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 305
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting pictures from Tom M...
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2015, 11:23:28 AM »
I will add that I've met and talked to Tom in person and he was nice enough to introduce me to Stroppe Jr. We've talked and emailed on several occasions and he's always been very helpful.

HolmanMoodyStroppeGang

  • Guest
Re: Interesting pictures from Tom M...
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2015, 12:26:48 PM »
On the pictures.  Thanks so much Jay for uploading them. The blurred ones are due to the camera and I will fix them soon.   And thanks to all of you for acting civil and smart and good like the old gang. Thanks for many fun emails and ideas too.

On the DYNO data, I own the entire collection and Stroppe and me, the gang, we only authorize you cool cats to look, we do not grant any person the right to re print or use the logos,data or facts please.  Until this day, only former FORD team guys have had access, and this data is the work of the Stroppe team before and after the HM merger, and during that period when we were a team.  We just want to maybe use all of it for an engine book some day and for authorized history sources. I was asked to say the above so thanks.

A few guys claim I wasn't there, so, maybe they can explain how I have all the data...so odd..

It will be fun to be engineers and study this as friends.

The pictures have some cool details;

1)  I wanted new FE guys to see how to ID a SOHC block.  Look for the big H. Hee Hee.

 This is a NOS std bore 1966 H block and is high nickel.   I want the guys to see that big H on the back.  That is the Hemi block and has an extra hole in the rear of the deck for the heads to drain back to the sump.

So for new SOHC guys, the head gaskets merely have an extra hole in the rear or the blocks deck, and a boss.

One machining operation I/we did was to add the rear drain hole to 427 blocks that have the boss.  It is a tricky passage, down, then angled. You drill in a Mill from both sides with a fixture and special drills an reamers. Well we did it this way.

Later in the 60s, some boats and Drag cars used the standard block, and we drilled and tapped the heads in the rear, to not need these drains in the block, by directing the drainage by AN lines, down to the pan.   Some saw a little more power normally aspirated,but in a Pro Car there was a school of thinking. Safety.

In a Dragster or a Funny car, Altered, we liked the stock drainage because adding 2 big lines, adds several chances for them to leak , maybe oil the slicks, maybe close in the driver(Oil his face shield-blur his vision), or, get on the headers and catch fire.

Many thought the FORD design was safer for extreme uses. We did.

2)  The FORD blower intakes;

We are mocking up a pushrod HEMI head for an FE, an evolution from the Mickey Thompson FE HEMI that was FAST back in 62-3. That set the Gas Dragster record and was neat. We built some too.   Notice the port spacing.  The SOHC came on the scene and began to beat the 392 Dodges for several reasons.  One is the ports, compare please. Also the bore spacing, see how the ports align to the right, and that big old powerful FORD is wider, thus bigger bores, thus further valve unshrouding and more displacement, and flow.  That stock iron port was good for over 400 CFM rough cast, and a lot more finessed. Add a blower and bye bye Dodge boys.

There is symbolism there too.  The 392 was fast blown, and won and won. The FORD did the SOHC.  And they won and won. So the SOHC stopp on top for a long time at many races.  The SOHC became the fast way. It remained the fast way until FORD ran out of blocks, and DONOVAN made a dedicated aluminum sleeved 392 block, called the 417. That could have been a FORD FE block, we all asked,begged, hoped.  Once the 417 proved it's mettle, and the FE blocks dried up, the 392 gang had the next edge.


3) X braced blower intakes.  Ford began with 2 intakes cast out here by Buddy Bar. Many X or SK castings were done there, we machined plenty.  The X brace show that this is the V intake.

The flat floor intake was very dominant in Funny Cars like my all time favorite, The Going Thing

Nobody won more than the legendary Tommy Grove.  He is such a fine smart guy and he is fine and well. I'd shine his shoes too.

He ran the flat floor intake, and a special plate.  I am re doing this fuel system now, very unique, very fast, very reliable.

The fastest Dragsters evolved to this style intake. The X on the bottom is a clue to older cats here.  The X braces the florr of the intake, which has a V in it.  The Super Snake, Baney Pink Prudhomme ran this one.   We always loved that car and it ran this style intake. The pop off is in the rear. 

Now why would you build a blown fuel engine, for a front motor car, and point the pop off at the drivers face?   To keep him alert.hahahahaaaaaa

The pop off didn't relieve often, we did rarely see a hiccup at night, and a flash back there, but the deal was, the front of a Nitro Cammer is busy with the mag, fuel pump and related. It fits clean out back.  Many ran a block off too, I have a new M/T one shown. Chromed.

4)  Flat bottom blower intake tricks.  This deal will have a special plate from the 60's to make the fuel distribution more even.  I show a 2nd design cover for the new cats. This one clears the adjustable rocker. Also, note the chrome filler tube.

Back when, you could tell what was inside a cammer by the covers usually. No added breathers, carbs and gas. One added breather, blown gas,injected gas, alky, fuel.  2 breathers per side, AA/FD or Top Fuel, AFX blown, Floppers.

5)  The dang camera blurred !  Sorry. Just billet special SOHC cams, reground.   Many of the fastest cams were cores with changes to suit the car

The rollaway is from back when, with many of the FORD team decals and so on that we only used in house or on our work.  Heads, prototype big valve wedges

6) Crane billet blower cams. One of my old team tool chests with an employee only sticker or two. A few guys elsewhere questioned my years up on The Hill, only employees had these lgog deals.  Metal sticker, Sid Waterman. Genius fuel system pal who is faster than fast and sharp as a scalpel.  Sid changed the sport for everybody

7) Billet blower cams.  These are CRANE 646 Nitros.   I wanted to show a trick. The 646 is ground down on purpose, and the etching is by a key cam vendor who reground them to be a bit more stout. This shows how many good cam companies, re did many SOHC lobes.

ISKY did special cams for the fastest blown gasser for example. We all LOVED the MALCO Gasser and he ran many special ISKY SOHC cams. So did we. ENGLE, HOWARD,CROWER,MOON, MADDEN, GENERAL KINETICS on te carb cams, CRANE, a huge influence.  Many ways to fly then.

For new guys, the stock SOHC cores are cast iron. Great bump sticks, fast. You can only regrind them so far, so billet was the next step.  Billet also corrodes less.   after running injected or blown fuel, or alky, that attracts water thus rust, the cast cams will get pits. If you find old SOHC cams with pits, they ran Nitro probably.   The steel didn't pit and could yield a bigger lobe, and profiles with more area under the curve, and they lived better in some builds.


8)  I gotta get to work.......more soon pals

The edits were spelling. need to check the spell check closer here.

ALSO   I did this entire essay last night, and one quick click erased it all.....So I tried again today.  One quick click, and the typing firld went blank.  My bad I am sure.

Thanks so much guys




« Last Edit: July 16, 2015, 02:42:27 PM by HolmanMoodyStroppeGang »

57 lima bean

  • Guest
Re: Interesting pictures from Tom M...
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2015, 12:37:14 PM »
Love the 515 HP out of the 390 engine :)Saw Tommy Grove at Minnesota Dragways as a kid.I eat this old stuff up!

jayb

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7436
    • View Profile
    • FE Power
Re: Interesting pictures from Tom M...
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2015, 12:49:19 PM »
Wonder how long the sweeps were on that 428 dyno?  I've never seen an engine pickup 20 degrees of oil temp unless it was hurt....

I'll bet they were static pulls, Brent.  Remember, this was 1969, and most dynos were not computer controlled, and the data was not collected in an automated fashion.  This was explained to me once by somebody, can't remember who, but they would run the engine up to the RPM of interest, get the brake set, read the scale (!), hand record the other data they were interested in, and then move the engine to the next RPM point.  Or, maybe shut off, look at the data, and then start again and go to the next RPM point.  If they were operating like that, it is entirely possible that the oil temperature would go up significantly as they gathered the data.
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

Drew Pojedinec

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2124
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting pictures from Tom M...
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2015, 12:50:39 PM »
Love the 515 HP out of the 390 engine :)Saw Tommy Grove at Minnesota Dragways as a kid.I eat this old stuff up!

Hehe, I gotta git me one of them 4.25 inch bore 390's Limabean :P