Author Topic: Nice Forum  (Read 4832 times)

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billballinger

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Nice Forum
« on: March 26, 2011, 01:43:56 PM »
Congratulations Jay on the new forum.  My FE project is going slow, but I had an idea I would like to run past.  I was thinking of going to a two ring pack, an oil and top total seal, and drill angled jets in the 2nd groove to shoot oil into the inside of the piston, specifically the roof in order to cool it.

Any feedback?  I have run 2 ring packs before on Brand X stuff and it reduced the friction considerably.

jayb

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Re: Nice Forum
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2011, 03:16:35 PM »
Welcome Bill, and I'm glad you like the forum.  Unfortunately I have zero experience with running a two ring piston, so I can't really offer you any advice.  I sure would be interested in hearing how it works out though; good luck with the project!  Jay
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

billballinger

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Re: Nice Forum
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2011, 05:54:46 AM »
Using it on brand X stuff it was a considerable gain, but this was IHRA Top Stock, no street driving. Everything was loose enough that it had 10 psig oil pressure at the line, of course that is measuring at the end of the system.  I also had to file the rods slightly to not sling as much oil up to the walls.  It had to be very discrete.  When the two ring practice was outlawed, I just put an undersized ring in there along for the ride.  ;)

jayb

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Re: Nice Forum
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2011, 07:33:35 AM »
I wonder if you couldn't get the same effect just by running a normal 3 ring package, but with small, lower tension rings.  This would probably make the whole thing more street friendly.  On my big SOHC I ran a steel top ring, .043" thick, an iron .043" second ring, and a 3mm oil ring package.  The rings were low tension, but not the lowest tension.  This setup did use some oil, but it was still usable on the street and I've racked up several thousand miles on this engine and others with this package.  Not to mention some 9 second quarter mile times in a 3900 pound car  :D

When you ran the two ring package in the brand X stuff, did you notice excessive oil consumption?  Was this a circle track application?
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

billballinger

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Re: Nice Forum
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2011, 07:08:24 AM »
I learned it in circle track engines.  Back in the '70s I built some engines in Larry Phillip's shop, 496 ci BBs. Everything had a fat top ring back then, so we left out the 2nd and drilled holes in the 2nd groove at an angle to cool the piston tops.  Also, I made scrapers to divert what windage I could into the piston itself instead of on the walls.  There was some oil consumption, but not enough to cause detonation. 

Later I used it in drag racing where a certain piston was specified that had the wide rings and did the same thing with the scraper.  With e Napier .040 and 3mm rings we have today, the friction is quite a lot lower.  My L2291s unfortunately have the fat rings.  Money is really tight, being disabled now, but really it may just be best to upgrade my pistons.  For primarily drag running, low friction is very good.  For street, a more moderate approach is needed.  I like to file the 2nd ring wider than the top to use blow-by/ crankcase pressure to keep the top ring land seated as long as possible as the piston changes direction.  The lands are the biggest part of ring seal, the contact with the bore is much less important as long as it is concentric and taper is minimal.  Excess taper will cause the ring to spin in the bore and wear the bore and land surfaces.  With the Napiers, I would assure that the bores are bore concentric and that the rings are not springing away from the lands and use as little friction as you can.  Divert windage as best you can to the insides of the pistons to cool them. 

Back in the old days, with Larry it made a big difference in power.