Best Roadkill Ever?

[FElony]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juGNz1DJ4xw

Ah yes, this is how it's done. Grassroots. Maybe even below grassroots, down in the wormy part of the soil. Mmmm, worms.

I've got to say, stuff like this appeals to me. Dirt cheap racing. I know, I know, the status quo in these forums is to produce pretty cars with all-new parts that are approved by the rest of the tribesmen grunting around the fire. But the allure of beating on no-dollar equipment for shitz'n'grinz is too strong for me to resist. So this is where I'm going to start, as I transition out of retirement and back into, uh, whatever it's called. Oh yeah. Reality.

If any of you actually have running tire frying thrashers, or are interested in such, speak up.

[plovett]

I think I would feel at home behind the wheel of that Duster.  I would have pulled out the power steering before smashing up those headers, though. 

That was definitely a very good episode.

JMO,

paulie

[mlcraven]

...I've got to say, stuff like this appeals to me. Dirt cheap racing. I know, I know, the status quo in these forums is to produce pretty cars with all-new parts that are approved by the rest of the tribesmen grunting around the fire. But the allure of beating on no-dollar equipment for shitz'n'grinz is too strong for me to resist...

Certainly one of the more enjoyable recent episodes of Roadkill, but it also highlights the substantial effort by some figureheads of the hobby to promote the fraudulent proposition that hot-rodding can be a low-bucks little-guy affair.

Don't we all wish to have a friend like Steve Dulcich, willing to lend us use of his shop, let us cannibalize one of his personal cars for free parts and, when things threaten to go pear-shaped, willing to put our projects to rights?  Add up everything that went into that build and I would't be so quick to call it "dirt cheap" racing. As for "the allure of beating on no-dollar equipment", even Freiburger seemed a little embarrassed at being a party to the butchery of a set of brand-new $700 headers.

[shady]

I guess cheap is relevant to disposable income, time, & what you have laying around. for me, cheap projects never seem to stay that way. something breaks, or I can improve this or that. not being retired, my time is really precious (as in don't have any) however, I always like the idea of not having to worry about driving the balls off, washing, waxing, & dents on a cool ride. Wasn't that the whole rat rod thing? I do have a 2 wheel 92 ranger just waiting for a LS, Ahh, I meant to say wore out FE.

[plovett]

Certainly one of the more enjoyable recent episodes of Roadkill, but it also highlights the substantial effort by some figureheads of the hobby to promote the fraudulent proposition that hot-rodding can be a low-bucks little-guy affair.

I don't know about that.  I don't think they were trying to pull the wool over our eyes.  I mean Dulcich did donate the rear end, the cnc ported heads, a camshaft, and I assume an intake and carb.  They didn't pretend that they found all that stuff on Craigslist for $400.   They didn't proclaim that the goal of the show was to "run 12's for less than $2000" or anything like that.  They put together a cool car without any hi tech parts or fancy fabrication, that runs real good.  I think it could be done by average car guys.  It would almost certainly take longer than the few days they did it in and the parts would likely have to be paid for.  So be it.

I think it was a good episode, way better than watching Freiburger and Finnegan do burnouts in brand new $70K cars. I would say it was really the "Dulcich Episode" considering he supplied parts, labor, and work space. 

I really like that Duster!

JMO,

paulie

[Qikbbstang]

How on earth the motor made power at all with the (@7:10 on video) "figured" 8.0:1 Compression Ratio defies logic. Perhaps the Isky "Super Cam's" profile was borrowed from a John Deere?

[plovett]

How on earth the motor made power at all with the (@7:10 on video) "figured" 8.0:1 Compression Ratio defies logic. Perhaps the Isky "Super Cam's" profile was borrowed from a John Deere?

If it was 8:1, then it would have made maybe 4% more power at 9:1, maybe yet another 3 or 3-1/2% more at 10:1.  How does that defy logic?

I like to match up cam and compression to optimize a combo, but the cam duration is not directly tied to compression.  It's tied to the displacement, rpm range, and to a lesser extent, the induction system.

paulie

[FElony]

I guess cheap is relevant to disposable income, time, & what you have laying around...

Exactly. Unless there's more stuff off-camera, I've got Dulcich's farm covered, in number of vehicles and engines/parts, by a good margin. What I lack is "recent" hands-on. The plan is to get ducks in row, practice on the "relatively" (is that better?) cheap stuff, and turn my finely honed skills (cough) on the Jets and other numbers-ish cars. I have no time constraints. I will basically bop till I drop. Or, if I suck at all of this, I'll sell out and retire on a Caribbean beach. Either is OK.

[FElony]

How on earth the motor made power at all with the (@7:10 on video) "figured" 8.0:1 Compression Ratio defies logic. Perhaps the Isky "Super Cam's" profile was borrowed from a John Deere?

I think you can hear the Duster struggle just a wee bit off the line at the track. Shorter cam and some converter might help. The burnout tells us where the power band is. No such thing as a slow 440 in any year. A few years ago in one of the mags someone put together a mid-8's compression 460 with a fairly conservative cam. The torque graph was huge, and the booger ran nicely on regular grade pump.

[plovett]

How on earth the motor made power at all with the (@7:10 on video) "figured" 8.0:1 Compression Ratio defies logic. Perhaps the Isky "Super Cam's" profile was borrowed from a John Deere?

I think you can hear the Duster struggle just a wee bit off the line at the track. Shorter cam and some converter might help. The burnout tells us where the power band is. No such thing as a slow 440 in any year. A few years ago in one of the mags someone put together a mid-8's compression 460 with a fairly conservative cam. The torque graph was huge, and the booger ran nicely on regular grade pump.

I remember that article.  I think the 460 had a 218/228 degree hydraulic flat tappet cam.  It ran really well.  The author complained about non-interchangeability of 460 parts from year to year and how hard it was to build.  I think he just didn't know Fords.  Boohoo.   They also had a low compression BBC 454 build up in the same issue.  It was low 8's for compression with a 236/242 hydraulic flat tappet cam or something similar.  I think it made around 430 hp, probably similar to that Duster's 440.  Definitely need some gear and stall to get a combo like that moving. 

What I'm getting at is the Roadkill guys knew the combo wasn't optimized.  It's still farkin' cool and goes faster than 90% of real running hotrods.  12.39 seconds is nothing to sneeze at.  Doing it with 8:1 compression is lovely.  Given the very good cylinder heads,, good intake and exhaust, 4.10 gears, sticky tires, in a relatively light car,  it still surprised me.  I was guessing high 12's.  If they could add 2 points of compression they'd likely gain 30-40 hp and it would "snap" at low rpms instead of chugging up into the power band. 

I'm going to go look in my old magazine pile for that article.

paulie

[FElony]

I'm going to go look in my old magazine pile for that article.

paulie

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/116-0008-87-octane-ford-460/

Ain't Google wonderful? That is, if you like pernicious governments masquerading as private enterprise. Ever wonder how they got access to spy satellites and permission to photograph every square inch of the planet, quietly and seemingly overnight? Anyway, I digress.

The problem with tossing an FE into this scenario is that the resale value of 428's and 427's has risen to the point that they are no longer "expendable" for the sake of hooniferous hijinks. This leaves 390's as the commonly available choice, with the 410 as a possibility, if you ignore the value of the crank. Blah blah blah.

Locally, there are still a number of rust-free old trucks and big Fords that are being parted. In recent years, thanks to a sharp increase in all things musclecar, the prices of 390 cores has gone up along with the cost of vehicles. You can still find deals on C-list when reality bites a seller, but it takes patience. Luckily, I accumulated most of my herd before the hike.

So, I am going to start with a 390 that was rebuilt and put into a truck that was totalled with relatively low miles on the build. It is .040 over with cast builder pistons and date-mismatched C8 heads. I paid $250 for it, with a Performer 390 intake, Duraspark dist, Holley 600, all front dress, and a rebuilt C6 short tail bolted up. Been sitting for several years, so I'm going to pull it down and see what's inside. I'll get into the target vehicle later.

[FElony]

Locally, there are still a number of rust-free old trucks and big Fords that are being parted. In recent years, thanks to a sharp increase in all things musclecar, the prices of 390 cores has gone up along with the cost of vehicles. You can still find deals on C-list when reality bites a seller, but it takes patience.

Hey, looky here!! Am I a psychic?  http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/pts/5051825130.html

Yes, I'm on it.

[plovett]

I'm going to go look in my old magazine pile for that article.

paulie

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/116-0008-87-octane-ford-460/

Ain't Google wonderful? That is, if you like pernicious governments masquerading as private enterprise. Ever wonder how they got access to spy satellites and permission to photograph every square inch of the planet, quietly and seemingly overnight? Anyway, I digress.

The problem with tossing an FE into this scenario is that the resale value of 428's and 427's has risen to the point that they are no longer "expendable" for the sake of hooniferous hijinks. This leaves 390's as the commonly available choice, with the 410 as a possibility, if you ignore the value of the crank. Blah blah blah.

Locally, there are still a number of rust-free old trucks and big Fords that are being parted. In recent years, thanks to a sharp increase in all things musclecar, the prices of 390 cores has gone up along with the cost of vehicles. You can still find deals on C-list when reality bites a seller, but it takes patience. Luckily, I accumulated most of my herd before the hike.

So, I am going to start with a 390 that was rebuilt and put into a truck that was totalled with relatively low miles on the build. It is .040 over with cast builder pistons and date-mismatched C8 heads. I paid $250 for it, with a Performer 390 intake, Duraspark dist, Holley 600, all front dress, and a rebuilt C6 short tail bolted up. Been sitting for several years, so I'm going to pull it down and see what's inside. I'll get into the target vehicle later.

That's the article, Kimosabe!  Really nice budget build, in my opinion.  My pile of mag's did not produce it.  Though I did get sidetracked on some nice 440 Mopar builds I found.  My dream Duster would have a 451 mill, a 400 block with a 440 crank and rods.  Pistons for this combo are still available.   Gov't sucks by the way.  Ditch your cell phone, On-star, and GPS.  Get a road atlas, a pocket pistol and keep $100 in your shoe.  JMO.

As for your 390 build, I agree that it's the only way to go for a true budget FE build.  428 cranks aren't as expensive as most people think, but you're not likely to find a recently rebuilt 410 waiting for you to hotrod it.  Compared to the motorhome 440 Roadkill used, the obvious difference is 50 cubic inches.  That's what made the 8:1 motor driveable in my opinion.  Sooooo, you won't be able to do that with a 390.   You'll need the compression.  Doesn't matter if you have to mill the heads, use a steel shim gasket, or whatever. 

I'd love to see a hard-edged real-life budget 390 build,  starting with a basically stock short block.   I think that's a fabulous idea! Maybe make it a fair amount more "intense" than the Cropduster's 440?  Compression in the 10.5:1 range.  A cam in the 230-235 degree range?  A Holley Street Dominator or Edelbrock Streetmaster intake with some home porting, Or a used Edelbrock RPM intake.  Heads?  That's always the heart of the motor.  How about some heavily ported factory iron heads with CJ size valves?  Maybe some early ones with smaller chambers?  Or you could get "lucky" (living next to a Dulcich) and find some ported Eboks for sale relatively cheap.  Add a Holley 750 and 1-3/4" headers.   4.11-4.33 gears and 3000-3500 rpm stall.  All in a '66-'69 four door Falcon, desert fresh.  Yeah???

paulie

[FElony]

If the ad I linked to above is deleted, here's the deal. Local has a 66 Fairlane GT S-code stick that he is pulling the non-original 390 out of. This car has been hot-rodded, but he is making an effort to restore it, except for the aluminum headed 521 that going in. Oh well. For sale for 1200 is this package:

 "This is a 1966 390 with 428 heads with aluminum valve covers, complete minus the carburetor . I'm keeping the carb! Comes with flywheel, clutch, throw out bearing and fork, bell housing, and transmission. The clutch and Tranny are good, engine runs but needs work. I think it has a bad cam, bent valve, or bad lifter. Does not smoke or knock so lower end is good. Still in the car but coming out soon. Could be started."

The previous owner put this present combo together. So, the short block is one of those damperless, timing mark on the pulley dealies. Intake is F427, heads are C8OE-N's date matched, original "Shelby" finned S7MS valve covers, adjustable factory rockers, GT exhaust manifolds, C6OZ car bellhousing. The trans is an Orion 3+1 D7. I gave him a $200 deposit to pull the motor, and left with the Shelby covers in hand. Touchy-feely with the rockers tells me 2 bad lobes or lifters.

If any of you remember seeing a red full-size Bronco on the 460 forums running 10's with a 598 inch SVO motor, this is the same guy. He fired that up uncorked in the garage for me. I felt like going out and ripping fenders and doors off some Chevys with my bare teeth. Ay caramba!

Fun hobby, no?

[My427stang]

Is this guy a preacher or some other significantly religious guy?  If so, I think I remember him from the 460 forum.

Looks like a good deal, did you see the head casting number though?  I didn't think you could bolt GT exhaust manifolds to a CJ head.