New Iron FE Heads

[BH107]

A few other things to consider.

There won't likely be a shortage of original FE heads as cores anytime soon. There are those who buy them by the pallet load, rebuild them and often add LR/CJ valves in the process, then sell them at very reasonable prices. Are they true performance head, no not really, but better than stock.

Then there is the new aluminum heads coming out of China from Speedmaster. While quality has been questioned, at the price I'm sure they will grab a good chunk of the budget market you are looking at.

Last, I don't think its quite fair to consider the Ed head as a stock replacement for the standard FE head. It is a step above almost all factory heads, and a definite performance boost over the more common 390 heads.

Me personally, I use early iron for originality. If I was building anything more I would be calling Barry for a set of his.

One questions for the industry guys. Are there any aftermarket iron heads made here in the US? I know there has been talk of the difficulty in getting the cast iron blocks done, and I'm sure that would carry over to heads as well.

[Drew Pojedinec]

You mention an affordable 427 block, why? When most of those who buy them expect to pay 5000+ after it is all said and done? It is the accepted going price isn't it? I will tell you why. You don't got it, and you don't want to go and sleeve a used up block just in hopes it will run. But you say with the same breath we don't need something that would make this hobby more affordable to the younger crowd.

YoungOne, I am going to try to be really tender here in how I speak.... it is not my normal tone, but I really and truly do not want you to be offended.
Your reading comprehension is pretty much at a third grade level if the above is what you gathered from my previous post.  My example with the 427 block wasn't anything about what you are talking about.  If someone is going to make anything for the FE, they should be making something that is not available.  This is why I said, "Why bother having them cast a 390 block, when I can still find them for $250 in perfect condition?"
Trying to compare a used 427 block to a set of C8 cylinder heads is absurd.

You speak about the "younger generation" (which by the way, includes me) not having any money, but then talk about having new iron heads cast for sale.  If you were really financially strapped, you would be rebuilding factory iron heads like everyone else.  It's not that expensive or complicated. 
I was considering BBM and Felony heads as performance heads, I do not consider them race only heads.  If you are wanting Barry to have Iron versions of the Felony head, I think you may be very sad to see that they would most likely cost the same or more than the Aluminum ones.

[chris401]

Cast a new bare D5TZ-6049-A FT head for $300. Not the C6 casting you specified but its out there.

[matt souders]

Drew I bilieve you may have misinterpreted my post. My main point was just because there may be a precieved notion that there is no market doesn't mean it's true. The 6 cylinder head and intake was an example the 331 and 347 strokers is another that comes to mind. That makes no sense to me when you could start at 351 at the same price but those stroker kits are very popular. Saving some cash is just a side note that helps. I just think it's better to keep all options open. to each there own. I know of plenty stubborn old men who refuse to run aluminum heads because they still fear them warping these aren't fe guys but people can find a million reasons to do something a different way than the next guy for his own reasons.

[YoungOne]

Drew, From the offset I have wanted to know why there are no new Iron alternative for the FE. When Dart, World, and RHS, along with others volume alloy casters, cast Iron counterparts for there SB Ford, Chevy, Chrysler heads. These are large company's that, as some have stated cast iron to satisfy sanction body's for certain motorsports. However that is not there only market. Many buy them because they work good and do not cost an arm and a leg. I sincerely believe that they could do the same for the FE. However just recasting the C1's I run or C4 's and C'6s others would make no sense. Which is why I asked about a newly designed fast burn FE head one that works good but doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
You run the old Iron? Which? Like I said I run a nice set of Ported C1's, the cost to build is around 1700 from Garrett Machine about the same as the ED's from JEGS but I did it one piece at a time and Mike worked with me. If I had wanted a set of CJ's done up they would have been around 2500 from Mike, or Tom Lucas at FE Specialty's, or a few other builders which is why I did not do a set, and why I wont do a set of BBM's or FElony heads. 2500 is out of my ball park.
Now if you, me, or someone else could pick up a set of new iron that worked somewhere between the FElonies and stock for around 550-600 each bare from a reputable source that would be a good thing all around. Better yet some one who is set up to cast 427 blocks they have the equipment and know how, all they would need is a new design and there are enough people to come up with a new head, not to mention other heads with quality's we could incorporate (Chevy LS platform wasn't the first to have a tall narrow port) If and again it is a big if such a company did they could somewhat offset the cost of the blocks. I think this would be the best option.
So why am I so passionate about this, for Pete's sake we do have a whopping number of 3 company's that make heads for small bore engines. well in the 8 days since this post started there have been 1463 people who have looked at this thread it you take the 38 members who voted so far and quadruple it  that is 152 views that means 1313 people have looked at this thread. That is on average 163 additonal people a day. If (I know another one ) only 5 percent would buy that is 8 people a day that is a  definite market. Even if it was only 1 percent bought a pair a week that is 84 pairs a year x 600 that is 50k in the first year. After that if you want to run the old stuff all the power to you, if you want to run BBM"s or the like, more power to you. I hope you buy FElony and put the money where it should go. For me I would run the fast burn irons for around 1500 +/- a set, get 450+ hp not have to buy race gas to keep from sucking a valve and be more the merrier. 

Chris I looked up the D5tz-6049-a and got a distributor I know the 6049 means a cylinder head but that is what I got.

Qikbbstang, I am not sure but the exhaust port would be critical and making it so vert and horizontal header mounting was possible would help install in the narrower shock tower cars.

BH107, Your right we have quite a few FE heads available, around here the early ones are getting harder to find. Probably because the people you mentioned who are picking them up by the pallet load see a market. Like my dad or older brother who simply want it to run. For them, these are perfect.

[matt souders]

By the way If there was a fourth option to vote for factory heads I probably would have voted for it. I love the nostalgic factor. And I'll never ask for or want something for free!!!!

[chris401]

The correct part number: D6TZ-6049-A.

[Drew Pojedinec]

Drew I bilieve you may have misinterpreted my post. My main point was just because there may be a precieved notion that there is no market doesn't mean it's true. The 6 cylinder head and intake was an example the 331 and 347 strokers is another that comes to mind. That makes no sense to me when you could start at 351 at the same price but those stroker kits are very popular.

Hehe....  a 347 stroker is an entirely different block than a 351.  I'd rather have a 347 than a 351 just for the shorter block, light rotating weight, etc etc.  So not really an apples to apples deal.

YoungOne,
Yes, I have run several iron heads through the years.  At the time that is all I've run.  D2TE in my truck, D0VE in my car.

I think I just worry that someone would cast your hi tech Iron heads and they'd cost $200 more than the Edelbrocks, and more yet to machine.

[ScotiaFE]

Just to keep the record straight BBM's do not cost $2500.00.
You can get a set ready to bolt on with springs for $2450.00.
Sans springs, but with valves for $2250.00
And a bare set for $1350.00. Needing valves and a full valve job. So doable for about 2K.
I have about $1500 in my BBM's including a set of REV valves, but needing the valve seats cut.
Although I can cut my own seats so advantage me.
Granted I got mine when they first went on sale for $1200 and the buck was close to par.
I'm pretty sure if you really watched what you are doing you could do up a set of Felony's for about the same 2K.
As you said yourself YoungOne you did some horse trading to keep the cost in check. Well do some more.

I was in the local Hot Rod shop, which caters to the bling, tuner and Pickup crowd now days.
I got to talking about what I'm up to and the guy says, give me a couple of days and I will dig out some old 27 gaskets
that I can have for free! I will pick them up Monday.

Also, Jay there is a small flaw in the pole. You can vote more than once.
Vote stacking?
For the record I voted once for the CNC full power jobs. I have all the other ones.

[jayb]

You must be special, Howie, I can't even vote more than once LOL!  FWIW I just checked the poll, and it is set up to allow one vote per user - Jay

[Joe-JDC]

I don't know where this person lives, but around here, you can get a set of iron heads completely refurbished with guides, valve job, cut for PC seals, milled, hardened seats on exhaust, new valves, springs retainers, keepers, seals for less than $1000.00.  Someone is making a killing at $1700-2500 for iron heads.  Joe-JDC

[machoneman]

Actually, I'm all  for it.

Yet, methinks it's akin to....beating.a.dead.horse...as they say. At least here.

The correct venue now for those desiring a new iron head is to take their demands to a potential supplier and convince them of the merits.

Another old adage: money talks. Pony up the cash to Edel-B, World Products, etc. and see what happens. 

[YoungOne]

Scotia, you are a sick man. If had known that the BBM's were available for 1350 bare you could have saved a lot of  people a lot of typing . And yeah  I am up for some horse trading but my stable is a little short right now as I am in the middle of a move. Thanks for the info

Joe 1700 bucks was to much for me. So I traded 4 sets of heads and one set was D2OE the 460 pi head I got at the Portland swap meet for 50 bucks from a kid who was cleaning out his barn and I horde parts. I didn't need them or want them so it was a good trade. I also traded a CJ short block that I would never build. the total cost to build the motor on my sheet was just at 10k but I got 3500 in trade from all my parts not great but 6500 was a lot easier to come up before kids.

Drew, A long, long, time ago, in 1997 I talked to Jim dove and he was casting the F5WE heads in iron the day we talked, and the price he quoted me for them nearly cost me a lung. But he was is a small boutique caster with at the time a small venue. I agree  that if Survival were to cast an Iron version they would cost more then the alloy which is why I was looking to the larger casters where one part could offset the other. However IF I had known that BBM were available for such a good price bare I would never started this thread. Looks like there in my future any body have an idea what I'll gain over my current build with C1's

Thanks for all the ideas.

PS. I want a 351c with AFD Aussi heads and a Crane f 238 in a 74 mavrick but thats at a much latter date

[Drew Pojedinec]

hahaha, there ya go, now YOU don't even want iron heads

The only iron head casting I could see getting any real business would be remaking C8OE heads for the CJ crowd.  Or at least making it externally identical to the original with a lil better chamber and whatnot.  That would sell to the restoration crowd.

[ScotiaFE]

You must be special, Howie, I can't even vote more than once LOL!  FWIW I just checked the poll, and it is set up to allow one vote per user - Jay

It must have been a glitch in the spider web. I got two votes in, both for the Max effort junk.
But now I'm locked out.