CNC flow numbers for FElony heads - production parts

[Barry_R]

We've finally moved the CNC program for the FElony heads into a production status, where we are doing several sets at a time. The intake port, exhaust port, and chambers are all getting CNC'd, and we are doing a normal 45 degree referenced 5 angle valve job for 2.25 intakes and 1.75 exhausts using production Sunnen VGS20 cutters.

 Compared to the original Engine Masters stuff I piloted this program upon, this is very "normal" with no moving of the head on the block, no angle milling, and no radical 52 degree valve jobs. These are available as production parts with a normal machining lead time. I have already sent a few sets out to select folks without any valves or blending to get third party tests and responses. One of them will likely report here soon - hence my decision to post this now.

 Intake port volume comes in at 196cc, so it is a larger port by a good measure. Intake port entry is 2.250" tall x 1.700" wide. Throat on the one we flowed was 2.055" in diameter - a touch larger than my target at 91%.

 Exhaust port opening is 1.870" tall x 1.500" wide (I forgot to measure volume). Throat diameter on the exhaust is 1.530 - 87.4% - should have gotten a little braver on that one.

 Flow was done at Kinetic in Detroit. I know the guys there but do very, very little business with them (like none for at least a year), so it should be good unbiased third party data. Tested on a SF600 bench since that's what most folks are used to seeing, using a 4.280 bore and 28". Clay radius intake entry and no pipe on the exhaust.

 And now for the "meat"...

 Intake
 Lift Flow
 .200 147
 .300 212
 .400 272
 .500 302
 .600 338
 .700 355
 .800 360

 Exhaust
 Lift Flow
 .200 110
 .300 150
 .400 180
 .500 196
 .600 208
 .700 226
 .800 236

[jayb]

Those are pretty good looking numbers, Barry, 750+ HP heads for sure.  Did you raise the roof of the intake any, or keep it at the stock height?

[bn69stang]

Those are some really good flow numbers Barry , gotta like the mid lift for the street ..Bud

[Barry_R]

I'll try & get port height measurements from deck as a reference.  They are much smaller than a BT medium riser port - and will fit into the normal porting envelope of a Victor or 2x4 BT intake without welding.  I've run seven pairs of these now - so its pretty much a production item.  Three first with the chamber hand blended instead of CNCd.  The rest in a four pair mini-production run with chambers done on the machine.

The first three went to a couple customers as loose parts, and one set went on a customer engine a couple weeks back (670ish HP IIRC).  Of the new ones with chamber done, one set is going to Jim Grubbs in Cali, two sets are already shipped to another customer, and one set went to Lykins.  He flowed his and got better numbers than I did 

[Barry_R]

I went out and measured a few heads.  Probably should expand this list to cover everything I see - as time goes on.

Measurements are approximate.  If the OE castings were decked it will change somewhat (obviously).  Castings are also somewhat variable in dimension.  I just stabbed them all really quick - your mileage may vary.  The CJ heads get lots smaller as you go further into the port - tapered floor.  I tried to get just inside of the entry chamfer when present.

ID                       Deck to roof    Port width     Port height
Survival as cast    2.900             1.490            2.160
Survival CNC        2.950             1.725            2.250
Edelbrock as cast  2.785             1.385            2.065
Edelbrock CNC      2.940             1.580            2.300
D2TE-AA              2.725             1.350            1.850
C8OE-N  (CJ)        2.790             1.350            2.330
Blue Thunder MR   3.200             1.540            2.380
BBM                     2.900             1.430            2.200

[Drew Pojedinec]

What have you found to be the timing requirements with these heads?

and obviously a tough question for you to answer due to you having a lot of personal funding and time involved in your own heads, but I'll ask anyway.....

It seems like the FElony heads, and the BBM heads are both very good upgrades over what is currently around.  Kudos to both parties for bringing them to market and keeping prices in a reasonable place.
But what does this do to the previous offerings?

I mean, if you are on the cheap, do not want to fix up your Iron heads, box stock Edelbrock seem like a pretty obvious choice.  If you are looking for power, or something a little more appropriate for your added cubic inches, BBM and FElony heads seem a very good place to go.  If custom ports and chambers is in the cards for your project, Edelbrock Pro-Ports and a Blair Patrick or Kuntz cnc program seems like the right choice.
(these were all assumptions for me, feel free to correct me, I run D2TE heads, and so am obviously not qualified to make too many comments on these things).

Where does this place Blue Thunder offerings?

thanks,
Dp

[Barry_R]

In my own opinion a Blue Thunder high riser head is still at the top of the food chain for a true high end race level product.  The CNC ported versions have flow potential at of near 400 cfm with a modest port cross section and a pretty high port placement.  They have the 8 fastener rocker mountings and a raised exhaust port.  Damn good parts.

The BT medium riser is a very good item, but its large "as cast" port and raised exhaust make it a tough fit in shock tower cars - do-able but not fun.  Almost a budget deal for a 482 compared to CNC ported options, and still has that cool rocker pedestal.

[jayb]

Barry, thanks for that data.  I see that the roof of the port is not raised too much, meaning that any stock style intake can be made to fit (as opposed to Blue Thunder MR heads, and some of the Edelbrock pro-port offerings out there).

[bn69stang]

Barry at some point are you going to consider a high riser head ? , and is anyone considering a sheet metal type intake ? .. Bud

[ScotiaFE]

I do have the numbers off the BBM's if it is acceptable?
Barry's post and all... 

[bn69stang]

Hey Howie if you dont post , can you email them to me .. Bud

[jayb]

I do have the numbers off the BBM's if it is acceptable?
Barry's post and all... 

Why don't you put them in a separate topic, Howie, to avoid hijacking Barry's thread.  This is good information for those of us building engines - Jay

[Barry_R]

I do not mind adding the BBM dimensional data - - I would incorporate it into the datasheet.
If we get flow data I would LOVE to get them on to the same flow bench - I would pay the freight both ways.

I have no problems with competitors - I beat them all the time 

[Barry_R]

I would absolutely LOVE to do a race head. 
I have talked to Marcella about this at length.
It would be instantly recognizable as an FE high riser part, but would have a few radical changes.
Possibly require a sheet metal intake.
Definitely require a very custom cam.
And way down on my project list right now.

[bn69stang]

Thanks Barry for the feedback , and i look forward to the future of the fe world with all the new parts coming down the line .. Bud