504 Highboy

[KMcCullah]

It feels good to be kicking up some dust with this truck again. For those that haven't read about it in the past, this is a 1972 Highboy that dad bought from the original owner back in the mid 70's. Here's a link with a few details.... http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=620.msg4771#msg4771

I'm about ready to start building the 504 short block. My machinist is balancing everything this week.

Here's a run down of the short block:
Early Genesis block
4.375 RPM crank
6.7 Scat I beam rods with ARP 2000 bolts
4.280 CP pistons (thanks Blair)
Comp 306S cam
Schneider shell lifters with Hi-Lube feature
Cloyes Tru-Roller timing set
Professional Products harmonic balancer
McLeod 30lb flywheel

As usual my fun bucks ran out before I got everything scratched together. The original plan was to get a set of Blair's street Pro-Port heads. Along with T&D street rockers and solid roller cam. I did buy a Bullet solid roller cam from Blair when I bought the pistons but that was as far as I got before life happened again. So for now I'll have to run the heads and intake from the 390 on the 504. (but I still want the intake adaptor Jay, I think I'm #86?) The heads are C4AE-G's that Les Schmader ported with 2.15 and 1.65 valves. The intake is a Performer RPM that I port matched to the heads. They should choke the 504 cubes pretty well.  Maybe the tax man and uncle Sam will cut me some slack.

Here's a short video I took with my phone before I pulled the engine last weekend. It's kinda shaky so I apologize in advance for any motion sickness. The old 390 still has quite a bit of punch left in it. Gets the 5100lb truck down the road. I'd like to find a Pinto wagon to turn into a drag car someday. I think the 390 would be just right for that.
The 390's last song.....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioH6STKq3us   

Dad even bundled up for the occasion. It was 10 degrees when we pulled the engine. By the time we finished messing around the shop had warmed up to 27 or so.  We had a bet wether or not the cherry picker would go high enough. The loser had to fetch a couple of slushy beers out of the fridge.
 


Here's what a Schneider shell lifter with the Hi-Lube feature looks like. You can barely see the ground flat that runs from the bottom of the lifter to the oil band.



Has anybody ever seen or tried a lifter like this? I'm wondering if 16 of these things are going to result in a low oil pressure situation. They seemed like a good idea considering all the wiped lobes that I've read about. I guess I should have asked before buying them. What do you think guys?

[jayb]

Looking forward to seeing that engine come together, Kevin.  Are you going to dyno it when you get it together?  It would be interesting to see dyno data with the cast iron heads, and then later with the pro-ports (as long as I'm spending your money LOL!)

BTW, you are in the next group on the intake adapter list.  Just waiting for the next round of castings 

[KMcCullah]

Are you going to dyno it when you get it together?  It would be interesting to see dyno data with the cast iron heads, and then later with the pro-ports (as long as I'm spending your money LOL!)

I am going to dyno it. I just recently found a second dyno locally. The guy that has it is a really competitive dirt late model racer. Super nice guy too! I was planning on hauling it to Denver to dyno it before I met him. The only other guy in town with a dyno wanted $500 to run it. Which seemed reasonable to me. But when he heard I wanted to run a FE Ford the price went up to $1000! When I asked why so much he said "because I hate those antique pieces of blue oval shit!" We exchanged a few unkind words after his bold statement. I wanted to reach over and slap the smug look off his face. GM guys.....sheesh. 

[Drew Pojedinec]

But when he heard I wanted to run a FE Ford the price went up to $1000! When I asked why so much he said "because I hate those antique pieces of blue oval shit!"

Translation:
"I am charging $500 more, because I only have the ability to dyno test one engine, the small block Chevy due to my lack of tools, imagination and soul.  I often get confused when a distributor is in a rational position on an engine, and anything other than boring as hell square valve covers scare me."

If it makes you feel better, whilst partaking of the $2.15 a gallon 93 octane fuel today, a nice older fella stopped by the pump to chat with me about my 63....  apparently he used to race a 64, 427 car and he has a body shop in town, he encouraged me to come check out his FE stash and if I ever needed help, to drop him a line.   Not that this helps you perse, but it's nice to know there are folks like this out there.

[KMcCullah]

I think you are damn close with your translation Drew. All I know is I will never go back. I guess I shouldn't say "never". The only reason I would ever go back to his shop would be to give him a complimentary mullet adjustment.

Your gas station story is cool. I've met tons of good guys while getting gas. Heck that was how I stumbled across my Genesis block. Made a really good friend out of that deal too. 

[machoneman]

Here's what a Schneider shell lifter with the Hi-Lube feature looks like. You can barely see the ground flat that runs from the bottom of the lifter to the oil band.  Has anybody ever seen or tried a lifter like this? I'm wondering if 16 of these things are going to result in a low oil pressure situation. They seemed like a good idea considering all the wiped lobes that I've read about. I guess I should have asked before buying them. What do you think guys?
[/quote]

Have never seen a FE or any Ford lifter like that but do remember same for SBC's long ago. The idea seemed to fade pretty quickly. I'd be 2x careful to watch oil pressure at fire up and once it's hot at idle. Still, I'll venture you won't see any big decrease in oil pressure....JMO! 

[lovehamr]

Kevin, I live in a little podunk town as well and had the same issues when I went to dyno but not quite as derogatory yours.  I did have to fab my own brackets to attach my FE to their dyno so if you need some (depending on what dyno they have) you can use mine if you like.

[Drew Pojedinec]

Your gas station story is cool. I've met tons of good guys while getting gas. Heck that was how I stumbled across my Genesis block. Made a really good friend out of that deal too. 

Yeah, it beat my last encounter, which  was a guy who walked up and said "yo man, that is the nicest Impala I've ever seen."

Didn't know what to say, so I just gave him a "yeah, thanks."

[KMcCullah]

Kevin, I live in a little podunk town as well and had the same issues when I went to dyno but not quite as derogatory yours.  I did have to fab my own brackets to attach my FE to their dyno so if you need some (depending on what dyno they have) you can use mine if you like.

Thanks for the offer Steve. I think the dyno guy has everything to run an FE on his dyno. Except for headers, which I would rather run mine anyhow. So I can see how bad they really are. 

[KMcCullah]

Progress has been slow. Over the past few weeks I've got the short block put together.



The cam didn't quite degree in where I wanted it. It's a 306S Comp with a 110 lobe sep. I wanted it in at 106 but it ended up at 104 1/2. I'm sure this issue could be traced back to the RPM crank. Either the 1-5 rod journal is in the wrong place or the timing gear key was cut in the wrong place. No wonder you can't buy one of these cranks from any reputable FE parts seller without it being at .010-.010 right out of the box. I also had to play with std and +.001 rod bearing shells to get all the clearances right.




I left 3/8"of stud sticking out to bolt the Milodon pick up tube on to. Got about 1/2 of a 1/2-20 nut holding it. Didn't forget the Loc-tite either.



I was so excited when I pulled the windage tray out of the box and saw that it had a clearance notch for the pick up tube. Well it must be for a factory 4x4 pick up tube because it doesn't work with mine. Notice the marks where I cut clearance for the socket.



I slapped some clay on the top of #1 piston. Mocked it together with a used head gasket. Intake valve clears by .165 and the exhaust clears by .197. That should work fine. I've ran a lot closer before.



The Fel-Pro 1020 head gasket does NOT play nice with a Genesis block. Notice the little tab coming off the fire ring for #3 cylinder. It intersects the water passage. I don't know that it would hurt anything but I dont like it. If I had known this was going to be a problem I would have plugged the holes and drilled the plugs a bunch smaller. Also notice to the left of the head stud that the oil hole for the rocker arms it out of location. Easily fixed but certainly a pitfall if a guy isn't paying close attention.



The front of the 1020 Fel-Pro has issues too. The little burp hole in the gasket doesn't line up with the water jacket in the block. I bet this would cause some air to get trapped in the water jacket. I've got a set of Cometics on the way now. Slooooow progress but at least I'm going forwards.

[cobracammer]

I feel your pain with the issues on "right out of the box" cams....  LOL  mine were WAYYYYYYYY off.  I think Stevie Wonder cut them and Ray Charles was holding them steady!  Nice work thus far.  Keep us posted!

[ScotiaFE]

On the picture of the nut on the stud holding the bracket,
It probably only has one thread holding it. With the start thread on the stud and nut and only
three threads showing. I would take a file and bring the nut down to the flat.
Well actually I would put it in the lathe and machine it down. But you get the idea.

Edit: On early Genesis blocks there was an issue with the oil transfer slot and the Fel Pro gaskets also.

[blykins]

Don't blame the cam timing on the crankshaft....many, many variables there, including the cam, crank, timing set, etc.  That's why they make multi-key crank sprockets....put the cam timing where you want it if you're not satisfied with where it's at.  If you want it at 106, just retard it 2 degrees from where it's at. 

As for why we cut the cranks .010/.010, it's because the journals are usually a little oversized. 

[Barry_R]

I just tried that gasket on a newer sideoiler block and on a factory block - - neither one had that issue.
Must've been a older Genesis block hole size or location problem.
Something else to look out for though.

That little tab is a location button for the fire ring during gasket assembly.  It does not have a backing and should compress into the composite in service.

[turbohunter]

Guys I had the interference problem on a 105 block.