Author Topic: Head Gasket Questions  (Read 5883 times)

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1967 XR7 GT

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Head Gasket Questions
« on: January 06, 2015, 03:13:44 AM »
Wouldn't I want a head gasket to fit the bore of my block ?

I 've noticed head gaskets for instance for a 390, come with a bore dia. of 4.180", are they produced that way to cover an assortment of bore sizes, like for the 390 to the 428 ?

And gaskets I've seen for the 427, have a bore dia. of 4.400".

Let me take a guess, Tooling Costs, it's cheaper to tool for one gasket that will fit an assortment of bore size than tooling for a number of different bore sizes.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2015, 04:06:47 AM by 1967 XR7 GT »
Richard

 "Frankly, I'm tired of hearing all the complaints; makes me wonder why I bother hosting this forum."

jayb

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Re: Head Gasket Questions
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2015, 08:44:11 AM »
I think you hit the nail on the head.  Ideally, you would like to have the head gasket match the bore size.  Practically speaking, the manufacturers have a limited number of bore sizes that they will offer for sale, so you have to choose between those. 
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

blowrsnob

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Re: Head Gasket Questions
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2015, 01:03:28 PM »
"Wouldn't I want a head gasket to fit the bore of my block ?"
As Jay said, practicality is a driver as tooling can be very expensive. However, many times while assembling the engine, cylinder head interface with the gasket is forgotten, simply because it's never in view. The head gasket manufacturer must take into consideration the shape & size of the combustion chamber as well as the bore opening in order to offer the best transition from cylinder bore to combustion chamber.
Often times the bore is much smaller than the combustion chamber especially at valve locations that have been un-shrouded. In this case a head gasket with a larger bore opening than the block is required or failure is imminent at the point where the fire-ring is not in contact with the head (usually near a valve).
In the reverse, where the edge of the combustion chamber is inside or very close to the bore opening, the head gasket would, ideally match the bore opening.
What you really want to avoid is a head gasket that is significantly larger than both the bore opening and the chamber. This creates a void or gap around the entire bore, adding wasted cc's to your swept volume and increasing the probability of pre-ignition.

Suggestion: before settling on a head gasket choice, flip the heads over and place a sample of the head gasket on your cylinder head in the installed position. This will give a you visual and perhaps save some frustration in the future.   

turbohunter

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Re: Head Gasket Questions
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2015, 02:55:26 PM »
Ryan and I have talked about this at length lately.
I love FEs so I want him to carry many bore sizes on his shelf because I want all FE guys to be happy.
But the question remains, he has to run a business and what makes sense for him and his company while still being a hot rodder.
Remember there is not only the tooling but the inventory on the shelves and the labor/materials to make the part.
If only a few guys run a certain motor does it make sense?

« Last Edit: January 07, 2015, 01:21:13 PM by turbohunter »
Marc
'61 F100 292Y
'66 Mustang Injected 428
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blowrsnob

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Re: Head Gasket Questions
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2015, 04:24:58 PM »
Turbo,
At PRI I discussed bore openings with Jay, then later with Barry. Though Barry would like to see a 4.200".. we have tooling made for the 4.250" and that will be our 'small bore'. Both Jay & Barry agree that 4.400" is the best big bore so that's our next FE head gasket offering though still a few months away.

1967 XR7 GT

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Re: Head Gasket Questions
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2015, 08:15:21 PM »
It's been a while since I built a V-8, for the last 10 years or so I have been playing mostly with 914 4 cyl Porsche motors. I run Piston & cyl's sizes anywheres from 4.130" to 4.180". But the issue with these are cyl to head sealing, chamber sizes, valve shrouding, all critical areas during assembly. Fixes, using lapping compound to lap cast iron cyl's to aluminum heads to help them seal, copper head gaskets, and other assorted fixes. Chambers that have to be small enough so the cyl's have surface area large enough to seal against, which in turns shrouds valves and the fix for that is high lift, which gets the valve out of the chamber that's shrouding it.

So, recently I was looking for gaskets for my 390 build, and remembered that the last time I used factory steel shim gaskets, so was looking for a set and the ones I found the bore dia was 4.410". My bore size is 4.090, so that would leave .160" from the bore to the gasket, which is a lot of wasted area that could be used to seal the heads. I 've found other gaskets that have a bore size of 4.180", so .045" from the bore to the gasket is much better. 

And for my 427 build, I did find Cometic makes MLS 4.250" bore gaskets which match my bore size.

Who knows, maybe I am getting anal in my old age... ::)... Or how about it's the devil in the detail gained from experience... 8)...I like that explanation better.
Richard

 "Frankly, I'm tired of hearing all the complaints; makes me wonder why I bother hosting this forum."

blowrsnob

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Re: Head Gasket Questions
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2015, 12:11:52 PM »

1967 XR7 GT

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Re: Head Gasket Questions
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2015, 12:46:29 AM »
Thanks for the additional Gasket options.



Below are some links for SCE's current shim steel and composite head gasket offerings for the FE. As I mentioned before, the 4.400" bore will be in the same style as the last of the gaskets below (p/n 534254).

http://scegaskets.com/product/sce-gaskets-part-number-534252/
http://scegaskets.com/product/sce-gaskets-part-number-534402/
http://scegaskets.com/product/sce-gaskets-part-number-534304y/
http://scegaskets.com/product/sce-gaskets-part-number-534174/
http://scegaskets.com/product/performance-composite-head-gaskets-for-ford-fe/
Richard

 "Frankly, I'm tired of hearing all the complaints; makes me wonder why I bother hosting this forum."

rockittsled

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Re: Head Gasket Questions
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2015, 06:58:23 PM »
And thanks to Marc and his brother