Wideband Data Logging Systems

[601hp]

I often read the posts on this site because the experience and knowledge seems to be so helpful.  I'd like to buy a wideband O2 kit for a new engine that's now in my garage, but not yet installed in my car.  I'm hoping to further dial in a pair of Quick Fuel 750 carbs that have a less than stellar history.  Here's some of that history.

Bought both carbs as a matched pair and mounted them on a 427 FE 2 years ago.  After struggling through a few issues, I thought they were good to go.  However........they apparently weren't.  Recently I had a 496 FE built and dyno'd, and I had provided these carbs for the new engine.  The engine builder had to do some serious tweaking on dyno day and his work created a sustantial increase in hp.  Now I know the engine idles and runs well at WOT.  It's everything in between that I want to dial in.

Back to the wideband.  I've never used one, yet.  After doing some reading, I'm inclined to purchase a 2 channel system.  Will probably use weld on bungs, and include a throttle position sensor.  I'm thinking I'd like to monitor each side of the engine.  Also, with the 2 carbs, would it be of benefit to install a bung in #1 primary pipe and a bung in #8 primary pipe, to maybe determine the input from each carb?

I am wide open to suggestions!  Which system do you like.........which 2 header pipes would be best for the weld on bungs.....and so on.

Not looking to break the bank on this set up, less than $1k would be great.  Do you feel this is a good tool for final tweaking of these 2 carbs?

Really appreciate your opinions.
David

[drdano]

I've had good luck with my single channel Innovate LM-2.  I think I have less than $500 into the setup.  The second channel version + additional O2 sensor will cost a tad more. 

http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=1109.0

[KMcCullah]

I am wide open to suggestions!  Which system do you like.........which 2 header pipes would be best for the weld on bungs.....and so on.

+1 on the Innovate LM-2. I'm not an expert on where to locate your weld on bungs but it does not seem like a good idea to put them on just one header pipe. You would only be getting O2 readings from only two cylinders. If you locate your O2 sensors in the header collectors or down stream even further you would be sampling exhaust from all the cylinders. And jetting would be an average of all cylinders being sampled not just 2. I put my one O2 sensor in my drivers side collector FWIW.   

[jayb]

I like this one:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ngk-96604

The NGK O2 sensors are more expensive than the Bosch sensors that come with the Innovate Motorsport setups, but in my experience they last a LOT longer, like 10X as long.  Also I've noticed the Bosch sensors don't like the heat from a header primary tube location, whereas the NGK sensors seem to tolerate that pretty well.

For your purposes I wouldn't worry about a dual channel system, just get an extra bung, weld one into each header collector or exhaust pipe behind the collector, and look at them one at a time.  Get your tune set up with the sensor on one side, and you'll probably be real close on the other.

Once you have a good O2 sensor setup, you'll never tune without it...

[bartlett]

I run a innovative lc-1 right in my car live all the time .. Best thing Ive ever bought. It makes tuning simple. I like it alot for tuning n20. It makes it nice to see your jetting is good on and off the bottle.  $160 complete .. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Innovate-LC1-Wideband-DB-52mm-Kit-O2-Sensor-BLUE-LC-1-3795-/270904657477?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f132d0645&vxp=mtr

[601hp]

Seems like I came to the right place, and I thank you guys for your opinion and advice.    If you think of anything else to add, I'll look at this thread for a while.

David

[KMcCullah]

I like this one:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ngk-96604

I've never seen that one before, Jay. Can you plug a gauge into the data logger? Or is it a laptop computer only deal?

[drdano]

The NGK O2 sensors are more expensive than the Bosch sensors that come with the Innovate Motorsport setups, but in my experience they last a LOT longer, like 10X as long.  Also I've noticed the Bosch sensors don't like the heat from a header primary tube location, whereas the NGK sensors seem to tolerate that pretty well.

It is interesting you bring that up.  I have the original Bosch sensor with my LM-2 that came with it and have a second as a backup.  I do notice that when I'm zooming down the road for long periods (like driving 600 miles to go race at Bonneville) my LM-2 will freeze the AFR ratio.  I've always thought it was a glitch in the LM-2 itself, but now I'm thinking it could be the sensor "locking up" so to speak.  Is there an NGK part number for the Bosch sensor?  I'd love to try it out and see if it fixes the problem.

Once you have a good O2 sensor setup, you'll never tune without it...

AMEN.  I've learned so much about how much I didn't know about tuning with mine.

[jayb]

I like this one:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ngk-96604

I've never seen that one before, Jay. Can you plug a gauge into the data logger? Or is it a laptop computer only deal?

It has an analog voltage output, 0-5 volts I think, so it should be able to drive a gauge.  I use it to interface to the data collection system on my dyno, and it also feeds into the MS3X EFI system on the cars, so data from the O2 sensor is automatically logged.

[jayb]

The NGK O2 sensors are more expensive than the Bosch sensors that come with the Innovate Motorsport setups, but in my experience they last a LOT longer, like 10X as long.  Also I've noticed the Bosch sensors don't like the heat from a header primary tube location, whereas the NGK sensors seem to tolerate that pretty well.

It is interesting you bring that up.  I have the original Bosch sensor with my LM-2 that came with it and have a second as a backup.  I do notice that when I'm zooming down the road for long periods (like driving 600 miles to go race at Bonneville) my LM-2 will freeze the AFR ratio.  I've always thought it was a glitch in the LM-2 itself, but now I'm thinking it could be the sensor "locking up" so to speak.  Is there an NGK part number for the Bosch sensor?  I'd love to try it out and see if it fixes the problem.

I don't think the NGK sensors will work with the Innovate setup; different electronics used to drive the sensor and all that.

[jmlay]

I use the DYI kit(assemble yourself) from TechEdge:

http://wbo2.com/

[601hp]

One more question..............
Do all of the wideband kits provide software for laptop interfacing?

David