Land Speed Project

[cammerfe]

Please take the following as a sort-of 'teaser' in regard to a project in its beginning stages. I bring it up here, now, due to the lively discussion that's been going on with regard to block integrity.

Jim Dove and I have been 'noodling' on what it might take to make possible a thoroughly modern FE based engine for 'door-slammer' Land Speed Racing. Requirements are that the project, in all its major areas, be recognizably Ford-based.

With that in mind, I have done the work to reach preliminary agreement with a concern that makes a Cobra Daytona-themed car as the basis for the project. Both in form-drag and frontal area it is about as good as it gets for a front-mid-engined vehicle that's recognizably from Ford.

In regard to the engine, the basic format will be that of a high-deck SOHC to make possible an engine of about 600 CID without the necessity for moving bore centers. Everything in the way of lay-out will be looked-at with an eye to adding strength. We intend to use a pair of turbos. By way of what's possible, there is at least one Cammer currently running with a 14-71 Roots-type blower. 50 PSI and 'pop' haven't yet found the limits of the FE block layout as it's currently available.

Jim has done re-design work on the Cammer head to make possible the use of geometry taken from KB Top Fuel castings. Runner shapes and angles make possible the equivalent of NA flow of about 500 CFM. Moving the fulcrum points for the rockers will make it possible to use rockers with 1.5 or more ratios.

This is an on-going exploration. The input from here is avidly sought.

KS

[machoneman]

Cool, way cool! I know I can't add anything to the SOHC engine design side but....

Love the Cobra Daytona coupe but I do wonder if some other bodies lend themselves equally to your efforts. Part of it is the $'s versus drag coefficients IMO. 

-the 1988-89 Thunderbird ala' Bill Elliot's all time high speed in NASCAR

-the '69-'70 Mustangs ala' Mickey Thompson's endurance and speed records at Bonneville.

-A late model Fox bodied former drag race car (cage, NHRA spec, etc.) set up for a LSR event.

-A '61 Starliner with body mods. 

http://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/bonneville-wonders-1961-ford-galaxie-starliner/

-A replica Mark IV GT-40

Food for thought?


 

[rockittsled]

A Pantera?

[BruceS]

Love that Starliner!  Wow... Bruce

[philminotti]

I love the idea of a cobra daytona, but I'm sure you realize they never had a wedge head FE in them, never mind a cammer.  No room.

[thatdarncat]

That's not entirely true. There was one 427 Daytona Super Coupe built. VIN CSB 3054. It was never finished while at Shelby American, Shelby was too busy with GT-40's at the time. The car was finished and ran for the first time in 1981. It has changed hands many times over the years, selling for as much as $1.4 million. Here it is finished. Pete Brock made changes to the design from the original Daytona Coupes.



Here's a picture as the car sat at Shelby American among the other Cobras waiting to be finished. First owner paid $3000 for the car unfinished.

[babybolt]

Any idea of the Cd, Af and lift coefficient of the Cobra Daytona - I don't remember seeing that data anywhere?

[cammerfe]

I talked to Pete Brock about this idea shortly after I first dreamed it up. He didn't give me any numbers but he agreed with me regarding the viability. The 289/Weber road-race engine was capable of enough power to go a bit over 200. Drag goes up very steeply with speed but the power available from the envisioned engine should make it possible to get past the NASCAR T-bird/KB-fuel-motor-with-carbs combo that has gone about 300.

KS

[Joe-JDC]

Factory Five was offering a copy of that body at one time, I don't know if it is still available.  It would be much cheaper to start with than the real thing, or an aluminum body.  I guess I should check before I posted, but they were supposed to be more aerodynamic.  That would also give a bigger engine bay with the Fox mustang style platform.

 The Daytona Coupe is in the kit section.    Joe-JDC

[fe66comet]

I am definitely interested in the possibility of a tall deck version block. Is this a proposed product for productin or just a limited production deal? I have said before that someone eventually would work past the current restraints and design a more modern block to work with, I am glad it is in the works. Will this be a cammer only block or will provisions be made for a pushrod configuration also?

[machoneman]

Cd for the coupe is reported to be .28, pretty good IMO.

http://www.superformance.com/coupe_specs.aspx

[BB-63]

I'd be interested in doing some CAD work for a manifold to land a Whipple supercharger (or 2) on the SOHC.  I'd just need a CAD model of a SOHC manifold to work with if Jim Dove has one.  I may be able to talk Art Whipple into some form of support since the "cammer" is admittedly his favorite engine!

[fe66comet]

I would think the parameters that were stated would include standard intake manifold comparability, SOHC intakes and parts are few between already. Making proprietary parts for just one engine would seem kinda limited but I suppose the details are still in the works. The extra CFM on the proposed heads might make the current offerings still comparable? I would be more interested in as I said a better block for a pushrod engine with a stronger main cap structure and bigger displacement.

[babybolt]

In the Factory Five literature (on the web) there are pictures of a Daytona Coupe on the salt.  Kinda what you would expect; front airdam, no mirrors, air inlets deleted, flush wheel covers, rear diffuser.  The short 95" wheelbase and light weight might give one pause for high speed stability. 

[fe66comet]

The one thing about fiberglass body's VS aluminum is weight and strength, aluminum would be far superior or better yet carbon fiber. Fiberglas tends to flex and buckle under load which I definitely would not like to happen at 200 MPH. If I had the budget and resources I would go with a aluminum\ carbon fiber composite body to reduce overall weight and would use the most efficient body design currently available for that speed. It would seem that the basic designs of the Bonneville salt flat cars are of a flat wedge shape with a closed tail signature for stability, I think Mickey Thompson about nailed the aeromotive design years ago and I think that basic theory still holds water today. As far as a unmodified stock body would go, the most modern designs of today are built with low drag and efficiency in mind, given that billions of dollars and years of development go into designing these vehicles why not draw off the manufacture's concepts of design and use a modern chassis. Unless the concept is to see what can be done with a vehicle that was originally equipped with an FE then my pick would be a proven design like the 1964 GT car. The car won races for a reason and it was not just the engine.