Cam choices narrowed down. Anybody got experience feedback on a similar build?

[jholmes217]

Talked with Oregon Camshaft today, and cancelled the Jeg's order for the Comp Magnum 280H.  He can regrind the 1969 S code cam I have to 280H specs for less than $75!  I will talk to Delta Camshaft tomorrow and see if they are comparable.

[jholmes217]

After some e-mail and phone conversation, Oregon Cams recommends their version of a Comp Magnum 280H.  He doesn't think it would need a vacuum canister or pump.  Haven't heard back from Delta Cams yet.

[bn69stang]

Sometimes a vacuum canister is just an added security blanket , the first cam i used if you hit the brake pedal a couple of times the pedal would fade . i used the one that comes on the 69-70 cougars that mounts inside the driver s side fender , i believe it was used for the head light cover s .. Bud

[My427stang]

No desire for solids?

[Ford428CJ]

Ken from Oregon Cams is a great guy to deal with! Have you thought about a solid like Ross had said??? JMHO

[jholmes217]

I have thought about solid, but Oregon Cams, Jegs, and Comp Cams all say the 280H, and say I would need at least a vacuum canister, maybe even a vacuum pump if I went with a solid after telling them about my engine and what I want it to do.

[ScotiaFE]

That's because all those guys at Jegs and Comp think you have some little pussy ass chev.   
Don't listen to them, listen to FE guys.

[jholmes217]

OK.  So those of you running a Magnum 292S with power brakes, are you using a vacuum pump or canister?

[ScotiaFE]

The 292S may be a tad rowdy for a low speed "parade".
The 282S would be a good fit for your 428.
You could certainly use the 280H and would work fine with the small booster.
Bottom line is the 428 will take a pretty good size cam and still have fair manners.
You have the 4 speed so that can always tame a cam. Just put it in a different gear.
Or you could take the booster off and put a big "parade" cam in.
If'in this is mostly for show then you want max volume.
Clicky de clicky sounds really kool in the parking lot.

[Heo]

I dont know but i had a 294solid crane fireball in my
390 Galaxie with powerbrakes and no vacum issues.
First i had a leaky booster so with Engine not runing
there was no Power but with that taken care of i had
Power

[My427stang]

Go back and reread what has been said

280H and 282S are very close.  Due to lash on a 282S its actually slightly milder than an equiv hydraulic.  The 282S is NOT going to be too radical if the 280H is not.  However, you will get better top end performance from the 282S

Cam tech lines are horrible, anyone here, or even the search function has more FE experience.  Although Oregon is good, this place certainly knows a lot more.

I am concerned though about parts choice, we have modified pistons, now cam discussions, THE most important thing about building an engine is knowing all the parts, matching them and then proper assembly.  Are you SURE of the compression?  Do you KNOW the chamber size, deck height, etc?  I think the whole vacuum canister discussion is a shiny object distracting you when you should be 100% sure on what your builder is giving you.  No disrespect intended, but I get the hunch that this motor won't be exactly 10:1, probably has not had the chambers measured and it may not be being built for modern quench desires.

Here to help, but we need real compression, deck height, etc numbers and know they were truly blueprinted, otherwise its just a WAG. 

[Rory428]

jholmes217, I had assumed that you were Jessie Holmes from Florida, obviously not. I didn`t see in your origional post if you were using headers or not. Also is your 4 speed the stock close ratio, or has it been upgraded to wide ratio gearing? Back in the early -mid 80s, I had a 70 R code 4 speed Mach 1, fairly similar to your conbination. My 428 was .030" with Sealed Power 2303 pistons, stock crank, rods, and CJ heads, with a Streetmaster and Holley 780 vac. I had Hooker 6114s with 2 1/2" pipes and "Sonic Turbo mufflers. The first cam I had in it was a Cam Dynamics Stage 1 solid, which was about .530" lift, and 226ish at .050. Although many considered the cam fairly wimpy, it pulled strong down low, up to 5800-6000, and ran 12.6@ 109 MPH at Bremerton Raceway, idled decently, and even got reasonable gas mileage, with 4.30 gears.
After caving into several of my buddys taunts to put in a better cam, I swapped in a Crane solid, with I believe had 238 and 248 dur @.050, and about .563/587 lift. Yeah, it idled like a hotrod, but the low end power was drastically reduced, gas mileage cut in 1/2, and for giving up all that nice driveability, I only picked up 1 tenth in the 1/4, with a best of 12.52 @111mph. shifting at 6500RPM. Ever since, I have always tended to staya bit more conservitive that many of my buddys. In normal driving the bigger cam took away much more than it gave back.
With Dave Bliss doing your machine work, and Ken at Oregon cam, you have in my opinion, 2 of the best Ford guys in the Northwest working with you. I have known Dave Bliss for over 30 years, his SB Ford were legendary. His iron headed 302 powered Thunderbird ran mid 9s 20 years ago, and he usually had the smallest engine in Super Gas by 200 cubes! Later on his 64 Falcon ran high 8s with a single 4barrel 302 wedge.(No power adders on either car) Since Dave has semi retired, consider yourself lucky that he is doing your stuff, he is fairly selective on what he works on these days.
I have known Ken Heard for about 35 years, and he has done all my FE cams for almost 25 years, and I have used his FE rocker support setup for decades. I don`t recall the exact specs at the moment, but I asked Ken about a similar solid cam to the old Cam Dynamics Stage 1, he makes one, under #645. That would be my choice, especially since you only have 3.50 gears.

[jholmes217]

No, my name is Jeff, not Jessie, and I live in Yelm WA.  I bought my Q code 1969 Mach 1 as a retirement present for my myself in 2010 after retiring from the Army after 26 years.  Six deployments were enough for me.  I was a hot rodder in the 80's and early 90's with small block Mustangs on the East coast, then recently got back into it out here in Washington state.  I looked at Ken's cars on his web site, and he definitely seems to like Fords, especially FE's.  Dave Bliss I met after buying a 1969 fastback Mustang with a 302 with early 351W heads built by Dave in 1991, still wrapped in plastic with no build sheet.  I tracked down Dave, and he said bring it in for him to check out and see if all was still good after sitting that long for $50.  I dropped it off in uniform after work, and he said don't worry about the $50 since I was military.  Just give him a month.  Good people.  I like Ken so far also.  I asked Ken about the #645 cam in an e-mail.  I'd go with his rocker system if I didn't already have one using Precision Oil Pumps stands and spacers, and FPP roller rockers.  By the way I have ceramic Hooker Super Comps that will go on.

My427stang, you are right.  I don't know exact compression yet.  I am trusting that to Dave Bliss to figure out after he finishes the pistons.  He said initially it was 10.7 to 1, and that I could get in trouble if I got some bad pump gas, and he recommended lowering the compression ratio.  Sounded like a good idea to me so I went with it.  He says it will be about 10 to 1 when he gets done.  He treated me right with the small block.  Even let me finish putting it together in his shop since I didn't have a full set of tools yet.  Hard to have lots of tools when the military will only let you have so much weight when the move you.  My bottom end of the engine is pretty much stock.  I have an "A scratch" 1966 block, 1UB crank, and stock rods.  How much more RPM would I get with the solid lifters and still be "safe" with a stock bottom end?  By the way, love your car, and your feedback.  I'd go for a stroker build if I could afford it.  I followed many of your posts on this and other Ford forums.  I have Barry R's and Jay Browns books.  Barry talks about using the 282s in many of his 445 stoker builds.  My bored .060 is pretty close to that in cubic inches.

By the way.  I teach JROTC at the high school in Tacoma that Gregory "Pappy" Boyington went to.  He was the commander of the famed VMF-214 Black Sheep Marine Fighter squadron in WW II, which the 1970's show Baa Baa Black Sheep was modeled after.  I'm working on getting a memorial made for him since there currently is nothing at the school.  If anybody is interested in donating, send me a PM and I'll give you the information.  Hard to believe that one of the most famous Congressional Medal of Honor recipients went there, but they have nothing to show it.

[My427stang]

Well first, time to start buying tools!  I am at the 19 year point and geobach at War College and still brought a full roll-away with me and have 4 more at home     Either momma ran the budget or you didn't want to pay out of pocket for each move! For me, Budget Truck rental makes money any time I move as am WAAYYYY over my allowance!

LOL  just yanking your chain of course, thanks for 26 years.

So now some comm brevity....

- If you don't know your exact compression AND deck height, wave off on the cam choice.  Just hit the brakes, you need more info.
- Switch gears to your machinist, have him cc the heads, get a good value and then find out what he is doing to hit compression.
- Your goal should be somewhere near 10:1 but ALSO and maybe more importantly, close to zero deck clearance

Once you get deck clearance, head ccs, piston cc's and you pick a head gasket, we can see what your real compression is and pick a cam that matches the compression AND the end use.  Before that you are getting ahead of the horse.

It won't help anything on this build if you end up at 10:1 .040 below deck, believe me, I was there on a 433 inch 427, it ran OK, but you leave a lot on the table and they are fussy on fuel if you don't know all the details

Of course it would be best to get a good modern piston without having to machine the ones you have, and you'd know the end dish value and deck clearance, and probably pay less overall for labor, but that is your call.  Be sure to have him balance the assembly too.

Again, trust the brothers here more than elsewhere.  FWIW I run a 10.7:1 489 FE on any swill that comes out of any pump, I also run a 445 at 10:1 the same way.  (It's slightly fussier but its also in a truck)   Most anything can be done with a little thought, but repeat comm....you aren't ready for a cam choice until you are sure what your machinist is doing and your critical comm with him is making sure he hits both the static compression AND deck clearance

Last comment, your question of RPM with solids.  I am not talking about changing the nature of your motor. 280H and 282S will be very very close.   However between a 282S and a 280H, at the top end of the power range, the valve train will be more stable with the 282S because of the solid lifter weight and design.  Where it makes power wont change significantly.

The second benefit is that solid lifters are tunable.  Set lash a little loose, which IMHO is easier than setting preload anyway on an FE, you get a little smoother idle and a little torque.  Decide you want a little more on top, tighten the lash, hell on my 445 I went from .026 recommended lash to .012, and for my application it liked it a lot.  It changes the actual valve events, something you cannot do with a hydraulic.

In the end, the 280 range of cams is about where most of us shift to solids, and with adjustable rockers, there is no reason I see not to.  Adjustment stays put with aftermarket rockers and its easier to initially set up and slightly better RPM capability.

Either way you won't lose, but shift that tenacity away from cam choice and focus on chambers, deck clearance and piston dish size.  Once your machinist gets that, THEN you can pick a cam

[ScotiaFE]

Further to what Ross said.
Cutting the pistons may not be a very good idea.
Using the basic data on a 428 flat top at .060 over he would have to take .040" off the top of the piston
which would put the piston approx. .050 down the hole with a quench of .090. Not good. That's guessing .010" down to start.
Ideal is .040" quench.
Using the DCR cal with the pistons at .010" down 4cc dish and a 75 cc chamber and the 282S cam
I get 8.41 to 1 DCR. Which is in the zone.

The biggest issue would be the Top Loader. The close ratio with the 3.50 gear will be pretty soft on the start.
Changing the TL over to the wide ratio gear set would be ideal.
With the close you would have a 8.12 Starting Line Ratio.
With the wide you would have a 9.73 SLR.
For a street car you want to be in the 9 to 11 range. With the 11ish being way more fun.