The Road to Drag Week 2014 - June 29

[900HP]

personally I'd be surprised IF the K&N filtered as well as even a asphalt race grade Wix with their T66 media. The T88 media is dirt track grade.  Would be interesting to install a accurate gauge to measure vac inside the filter housing to see how the filters perform at WOT max load. Looks like Wix does not make T88 paper media filters in your 16x3.5 size. You should at least look if holes in the media when held in front of light are visible to the naked eye as they are with the K&Ns. K&Ns use cotton gauze a large dia fiber and can't utilize as many pleats (surface area) as a paper filters.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALL26029-Air-Filter-Element-16-in-x-3-1-2-in-Paper-Each-/360976759316?pt=Race_Car_Parts&hash=item540be43a14&vxp=mtr

I did an air filter test on a 896 hp 565 street engine I built.  With a K&N 16x4 filter set-up the power difference from filter to no-filter was less than 1 hp through the entire dyno pull, you could overlay the graphs. 

I also use K&N filters exclusively on my dirt oval track engines, it's the only way I can keep bearings in the motors.  I have tested the Wix and the R2C filters and after a feature race I can wipe dirt out of the carburetor bores when using a clean white rag.  Having a rigid base and top and sealing the filter with grease is very important as well under dirt track conditions.  The trick to using a K&N filter is to use a genuine K&N not a copycat and don't wash it.  I see degraded filter performance even after the first washing.  We run 1 filter for a season and then throw it away.  I have dyno'd back to back with a used K&N and a new one (dirt track motor 450 hp level) and found around 2hp difference.  Not enough to worry about and that was a very dirty filter.

[cjshaker]

Interesting and good info, Mark. It's nice to hear real world experience and testing like that rather than theory and guesses.

[drdano]

personally I'd be surprised IF the K&N filtered as well as even a asphalt race grade Wix with their T66 media. The T88 media is dirt track grade.  Would be interesting to install a accurate gauge to measure vac inside the filter housing to see how the filters perform at WOT max load. Looks like Wix does not make T88 paper media filters in your 16x3.5 size. You should at least look if holes in the media when held in front of light are visible to the naked eye as they are with the K&Ns. K&Ns use cotton gauze a large dia fiber and can't utilize as many pleats (surface area) as a paper filters.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALL26029-Air-Filter-Element-16-in-x-3-1-2-in-Paper-Each-/360976759316?pt=Race_Car_Parts&hash=item540be43a14&vxp=mtr

I did an air filter test on a 896 hp 565 street engine I built.  With a K&N 16x4 filter set-up the power difference from filter to no-filter was less than 1 hp through the entire dyno pull, you could overlay the graphs. 

I also use K&N filters exclusively on my dirt oval track engines, it's the only way I can keep bearings in the motors.  I have tested the Wix and the R2C filters and after a feature race I can wipe dirt out of the carburetor bores when using a clean white rag.  Having a rigid base and top and sealing the filter with grease is very important as well under dirt track conditions.  The trick to using a K&N filter is to use a genuine K&N not a copycat and don't wash it.  I see degraded filter performance even after the first washing.  We run 1 filter for a season and then throw it away.  I have dyno'd back to back with a used K&N and a new one (dirt track motor 450 hp level) and found around 2hp difference.  Not enough to worry about and that was a very dirty filter.

Did you happen to run a dyno pull against a regular pleated filter like a Wix or the like?  I'd be curious to know how much power was gained using the K&N.

[R-WEST]

Don't want to hijack Jay's thread,  but that's some VERY interesting info, indeed, Mark - as cjshaker noted.
Do you clean the K&N's at all during the course of the season? 

[Qikbbstang]

 not a copycat and don't wash it."  It's standard operating procedure with HVAC pleated airfilters that are extensively tested by labs.  Out of the box their "initial" efficiency is about half the rated performance Average Efficiency/Rated Efficiency when they start getting clogged @ 1/2"WC. By the time they start choking at 1"WC "terminal" efficiency arrestance has skyrocketed to over 90%. I'd expect the washables would be similar to the HVAC filters in that you can see the holes in the media with a decent pair of eyes also and they are doing "cake filtration" where the captured dirt is doing much of the filtration. Unfortunately when filters start out so loosely it's a poor foundation as large globs of greasy dirt can bust loose.
    Your stating the WIX and RC2 filters suck so badly that there is wipe-off-able dirt in the carb bores, indeed this says the filters suck.  Are those Wix & RC2's really their "dirt", not asphalt filters?
     

[Qikbbstang]

Week SOHC.  I keep thinking a hefty SOHC has got to require considerable oil forced through its veins to take care of the mains and rods, but also all those followers/rockers and two cams worth of journals.  When I think of all the dry sump race engines I've only seen running the large racing oil filters and large lines it indicates these motors like volume. Then I think about what could happen if excessive oil is forced through a to small filter, sure it could go into bypass but more then that even in bypass the filter may still not not be able to handle all the flow. If that happens things could get worse as pleats could potentially pinch and delta-P increases.
    I sure hope you are not the one to experiment if a large dry sump OHC motor can run a mini-size filter.
BB

[cdmbill2]

I use a System 1 oil filter with the Peterson Wide Vac external oil pump I run. No oil starvation related issues to date (nine years) with the aftermarket 385 block.

[cbolze]

Jay, it looks to me that the washer under the center cam sprocket retaining bolt resembles a slice of pepperoni I had on my pizza last week!  If its just being used for fit up of the sensor magnet, OK, but if its going to last for test runs and a week on the road I can see that sprocket getting loose with that washer all deformed. I'm thinking a hardened steel parallel ground application and some red loc tite.
Courtney.

[jayb]

Actually the cam sprocket itself has an indentation in the center, and the washers around that center bolt always end up looking like that.  The tin plate that goes over the cam degreeing holes in the cam sprocket, which is under the washer, also deform in that area.  The tabs you can see on the tin plate were used by Ford to bend up around the hex head bolts that they used in that position, and locked them in place.  I just use Loctite on the bolts.  Never had a problem...

[900HP]

Don't want to hijack Jay's thread,  but that's some VERY interesting info, indeed, Mark - as cjshaker noted.
Do you clean the K&N's at all during the course of the season?

We do not.  I have tested a lot of other filters against the K&N and to be honest have never found more than a couple of horsepower difference as long as the filter is large enough for the engine.  There is more power to be had with the proper shape base and top as well as the right distance from the base to the top.

The K&N was compared to an HVAC filter with "large holes" and using dirt to filter.  This is not entirely true and is a common misconception about the K&N filters.  K&N uses a natural cotton fiber and this fiber has little "hairs" on it.  If you hold a K&N up to the light, yes you can see though it.  However, when the engine is running the little "hairs" vibrate back and forth effectively blocking dirt from getting through the filter.  This is why you can't use a K&N copy, they use a cheaper synthetic fiber and it doesn't have the "hairs" an you will destroy your engine (at least in a dirt car you will) I had this happen to me when a customer bought a new filter that was "just like" a K&N only cheaper. 

I am not sponsored by K&N nor affiliated with them in any way but I do use their products (at least their filters) and I have been happy with them.  I will tell you on a dirt 2bbl car the best base is the carbon fiber one from R2C not because it makes the most power but because it's very, very rigid and seals well.  A large domed top usually works the best too.  I have put a lot of effort into keeping dirt out of my engines and this is what works for me.

I should add, the reason we quit cleaning the filters is because I found a decreased ability to filter dirt after washing them (compared to a new, clean filter or a used dirty filter) I personally think this is because the little "hairs" don't work so well after washing.  We just run a filter for the season and trash it afterwards.  As long as I can wipe the carb with a clean white rag and it comes out with no dirt on it I'm happy.  It really helps to keep the cost of the freshen-up down when you don't have to replace every part in the engine due to abrasive contamination (dirt)

[900HP]

Here's a photo David Vizard took of me when we were testing filters on the EFI 565 @ almost 900 HP on 91 octane. (the photo shows a carburetor because we tested with that too)

[machoneman]

Here's a photo David Vizard took of me when we were testing filters on the EFI 565 @ almost 900 HP on 91 octane. (the photo shows a carburetor because we tested with that too)

That's very interesting, indeed. If any engine could or would get messed up, it's a dirt track runner for sure! Nice to have actual experience here rather than.....well, you know...LOL!   

I haven't had the need to use a K&N for some years but would not hesitate to do so. Had a box stock '94 V-6 'Stang that I threw one on and asked the Ford dealer's #1 tech rep if this could void the warranty. He stated that for years his crew has serviced a lot of Fords, most quite 'hot' in the engine bay, with a K&N and they even offered a in-house cleaning/oiling service for a fee. I also watched it like a hawk for about 2 years and never was able to wipe any dirt off of the EFI throttle body or EFI intake tract. 

 

[R-WEST]

Excellent info.

Be sure you hang around here - it's good to hear from those who've been there/done that!!