445 or 454?

[R-WEST]

I have a chance to pick up a 454 complete for around $5G; complete with MR heads, Dove rockers, etc..  Since I already have a 390 block, I'm guessing I'll probably get about as much tied up in building a 445 with the kit from Barry, Ed heads, etc..

It's going in a custom 76 F100 pickup, if that matters.

Decisions, decisions... 

[cjshaker]

The problem with a complete engine is that you have no idea what kind of shape the internals are in, unless you have a detailed knowledge of its history. And original 427 blocks and heads have often had considerable damage and repairs done to them. If they are indeed all good useable parts, then the price is certainly not bad. It can be risky though.

[jayb]

A complete FE with a 427 block, 427 MR heads, and a 428 crank is a steal at $5K if the parts are good.  As Doug says, with a complete engine you pays your money and you takes your chances...

[CaptCobrajet]

I agree with both of the previous posts.  I will also add..........you will blow that $5K right out of the water doing a 445, even if you do most of the labor yourself.  You could probably buy the 454, open it up, give it a look, some rings, and exhaust seats and still be about where you will end up on a 445 in total........and also have an engine worth much more down the road just because it is a 427 block.  Jay is right, it is a steal if it even runs and holds water at $5K.   JMO.

[machoneman]

I'd add check the bores for wear and if its been bored. A 427 at say .060 over is worth less than a std. bore or .030 over block IMHO. Still, that $5K sounds mighty good.

[R-WEST]

Thanks, guys.
I'll let you know how it works out.   

[R-WEST]

Update:
Finally tracked down the guy who owns this animal.
It's a 427 block, 0.020" over, with Scat 4.25 crank/rods/pistons (13:1)/Ed heads with 2.19/1.71's/Dove rollers. 
One cylinder has been sleeved.  Not an issue if done properly.
Guaranteed to pass mag/water pressure.
Looking at $5K for the rotating ass'y.  My initial info (454 complete for $5G) was obviously off.
I'd need to do something with the pistons, which is not that big a deal.
I'm thinking this should move my shortbed pickup around in fine style...
What is the consensus?
Thanks guys!! 

[machoneman]

Rotating assembly = short block with cam? Sorry, but many have different ideas of what a short is, partial engine, etc. If a short block (no heads, intake but with rods, crank, timing chain, cover, cam, etc. and at only .020 with one good sleeve, it sounds good to me 

Update:
Finally tracked down the guy who owns this animal.
It's a 427 block, 0.020" over, with Scat 4.25 crank/rods/pistons (13:1)/Ed heads with 2.19/1.71's/Dove rollers. 
One cylinder has been sleeved.  Not an issue if done properly.
Guaranteed to pass mag/water pressure.
Looking at $5K for the rotating ass'y.  My initial info (454 complete for $5G) was obviously off.
I'd need to do something with the pistons, which is not that big a deal.
I'm thinking this should move my shortbed pickup around in fine style...
What is the consensus?
Thanks guys!! 

[fastback 427]

That's a steal at that price. Only thing that would worry me is the sleeve. Just seen a 445 with a sleeve that let go. Ate the block, 1 piston and a rod. I would find out who repaired it at least. That being said my 454 has 2 sleeves and I spin it Hard. No troubles in 10 years, knock on wood.

[jayb]

I've had a sleeve in my 428CJ since 1982.  It has always run great.  If the sleeve was installed correctly it will be no problem.

Without the heads that's not as good of a deal for $5K, but its still a good deal.  I'd grab it; maybe stick with the pistons you've got and open up the chamber or install a thick head gasket or something to tame the compression down.  Or, just do what I would do and install a big cam to match the compression ratio 

[R-WEST]

Thanks guys.
I'm having it checked out now - we'll see if it's as good as the guy says it is!! 

Rotating assembly = short block with cam? Sorry, but many have different ideas of what a short is, partial engine, etc. If a short block (no heads, intake but with rods, crank, timing chain, cover, cam, etc. and at only .020 with one good sleeve, it sounds good to me

Block/crank/rods/pistons and Ed heads with 2.19/1.71 valves.  He has a nasty solid roller cam for it, but I don't think that will be the best bet in my pickup.   

maybe stick with the pistons you've got and open up the chamber

 
There's an idea. 

[Qikbbstang]

WTF?   I've read over R West's posts and can't see any indication it's only a shortblock (maybe he re-editied it?):

 "It's a 427 block, 0.020" over, with Scat 4.25 crank/rods/pistons (13:1)/Ed heads with 2.19/1.71's/Dove rollers."

 hell - what rods?....does it include an intake, rocker shaft support system, dist, VCs, flywheel, damper, W-P, Pan, Bell-H,  etc? etc?   IF it's a balanced motor I always look for and expect everything that went to the balancers shop or at the least the balance shops paperwork. Also any paperwork on build?
        That said at $5,000 it makes sense to ask if you can pull valve cover(s), oil pan. RWest you're so vague it hurts - Is it being SOLD as a running motor, was it run? .  IF you take it down for inspection - you need to have an agreed on price/$5,K in hand - all being OK.  You don't go taking the guys mill apart and think about it. IF something looks odd during inspection reduce price and go for it. 
     At $5000 it sounds like a deal just do some checking like you would on any used motor. The one that killed me was "opening up chambers" to reduce compression - rather then changing pistons = 3 Pts of compression sounds to me like you'd seriously mess up the heads. R-West your stating:
 "He has a nasty solid roller cam for it,"   to me indicates it may not even have been run or is not assembled?? Your vagueness sucks!...........You want the value of a motor and give nearly ZILCH info: Is it a running motor? was it ever running/all new? Does it still need to be assembled to run/install cam?  Lacking Parts? etc ? Etc?.
 BTW you snooze = you lose good deals don't last!

[ScotiaFE]

If it has a 4.250ish" bore and a 4.250" stroke then you would be in the 482 club.
A couple of pictures of this would get you much better feedback. jmho

[R-WEST]

WTF?   I've read over R West's posts and can't see any indication it's only a shortblock (maybe he re-editied it?):

 "It's a 427 block, 0.020" over, with Scat 4.25 crank/rods/pistons (13:1)/Ed heads with 2.19/1.71's/Dove rollers."

 hell - what rods?....does it include an intake, rocker shaft support system, dist, VCs, flywheel, damper, W-P, Pan, Bell-H,  etc? etc?   IF it's a balanced motor I always look for and expect everything that went to the balancers shop or at the least the balance shops paperwork. Also any paperwork on build?
        That said at $5,000 it makes sense to ask if you can pull valve cover(s), oil pan. RWest you're so vague it hurts - Is it being SOLD as a running motor, was it run? .  IF you take it down for inspection - you need to have an agreed on price/$5,K in hand - all being OK.  You don't go taking the guys mill apart and think about it. IF something looks odd during inspection reduce price and go for it. 
     At $5000 it sounds like a deal just do some checking like you would on any used motor. The one that killed me was "opening up chambers" to reduce compression - rather then changing pistons = 3 Pts of compression sounds to me like you'd seriously mess up the heads. R-West your stating:
 "He has a nasty solid roller cam for it,"   to me indicates it may not even have been run or is not assembled?? Your vagueness sucks!...........You want the value of a motor and give nearly ZILCH info: Is it a running motor? was it ever running/all new? Does it still need to be assembled to run/install cam?  Lacking Parts? etc ? Etc?.
 BTW you snooze = you lose good deals don't last!

Sorry  to be so vague, Qik, I was only wondering what the group's thoughts were on using a 445 vs 454 (actually 482), not whether or not $5K was a good price.  As it turns out I had a chance to talk to the machine shop that did the original work on it, and have decided to go in a different direction.  The engine had been run in a drag racer and the shop guy mentioned something about a water leak in the sleeved cylinder, so I figured I'd pass.