Genesis block

[c9zx]

I'm planning a build using a Genesis block. This is the first time I've built an FE since 1977 so I need to get current again. Any quirks, peculiarities, or problems I should be aware of? Thanks, Chuck

[thatdarncat]

There are a few unique things to watch for on the Genesis block, unfortunately I can't remember what they are. But Barry R of Survival Motorsports has posted on the web in the past what to watch during for during a build and he would be a good person to talk to. He has also provided some good comparison's of the differences in all the aftermarket blocks.

[c9zx]

Thanks for the information.  Chuck

[Mario428]

If you have not bought your block yet get ahold of Barry R at Survival. Get the block and pistons from him, then get his shop to do the machine work. He obviously has someone who has done a number of Genesis blocks and would have much experience.

[jayb]

One of the things you have to watch out for on the Genesis block is the alignment of the oil hole that goes to the head.  As I understand it you have to slot the hole a little at the deck to get it to line up with the hole in the head gasket.  Also the Genesis blocks use a special set of cam bearings, not the factory style cam bearings.  Finally, try to get one with the steel billet caps, rather than the cast iron caps.  Apparently the cast caps don't hold up all that well under high horsepower.

Just passing along what I have been told about these blocks; I have no direct experience with them.  I prefer Pond and Shelby blocks.  Have you considered a Pond block?  It's a much better piece, IMO...

[c9zx]

Thanks for all the input. The block has not been purchased yet and it looks like I need to do some more homework. The main cap issue is disturbing even though this is only a 525 HP build.  Chuck

[Glenn N]

Besides what Jay mentioned here are a few more......

1. #1 cam bearing needs to be clearanced (notched) to allow distributor to drop in.

2. Main cap thrust bearing chaumfer needs to be enlarged a bit for proper bearing seating. Not sure if this has been corrected or not but as is the bearing can fold slightly allowing the crankshaft to bind when installed.

3. You might need to widen the oil slots on #2 and 4 cam journals to .050. Some have run into the problem of the oil passage to lining up correctly with the cam thus some oil starvation.

4. I have heard some of the older cam bearings were a problem and they can spin in their bores cutting off oil supply. The fix is to use Robert Ponds cam bearings.

I can take a few pics of these areas if there's any questions. My block has cast iron caps and the build should be somewhere in the 500 hp range when finished. It's a older casting from 06.

[c9zx]

Glenn, Thanks for the information. I'm glad I asked the question. There seems to be much for me to learn before the build.  Chuck

[Barry_R]

The oil feed to teh heads needs to be either slotted over - or simply drill a matching hole in the head gasket since the heads are already slotted.  Takes 2 minutes tops.  But you do need to be aware of it.

I have had ZERO problems with cam bearings on these blocks in iron - not sure where that issue came from.  I use a flashlight to ensure alignemnt of the feed hole in the block with the one in the bearing.  The Pond bearings are simply wider, and come from the exact same source manufacturer so press is identical. 

I HAVE had a couple of aluminum blocks - one Genesis and one Pond - where one of the cam bearings walked out from position - didn't spin, just wobbled out.  Easy fix, but problematic.  Turns out that OEMs use a very tight press on production alloy blocks.  Red Loctite is recommended at the very least.

In six or seven years and who knows how many builds I have had exactly one cracked ductile iron main cap.  It was in a +/-700HP drag car and came in for freshening after a few hundred passes with no symptoms at all.  Cap came out in two pieces and we were stunned - the bearing even looked OK.  Split through the threaded "pull hole" in the center of the cap.  An apparent stress fracture at the threads.  Since then the pull holes have been made shallower and/or eliminated.  Probably a non-issue for any new build.

[Glenn N]

Barry that's good to know on the cam bearings thanks. I heard that years ago from someone on the forum (can't remember exactly who) that there were a few cases where the cam bearings spun. Might have been related to something else possibly. But sounded like there was some concern. My block came from Keith in Jan 07 and heard this like in 08-09 sometime? No exact timeframe was given and I wasn't sure which cam bearings it came with so I added it to my checklist. One less thing to change is fine by me.  Hope you have been well. Glenn.

PS good to see you here too.

[ScotiaFE]

The caps do NOT have a hole in them for a pull bolt.
Mine is a newer one.
Those caps look pretty stout to me.   

[DaveShoe]

With Genesis, get the steel caps.  Ford used nodular iron on the caps of their performance FEs and later pickup truck FEs, and only used gray iron on non-performance and earlier FEs.

Genesis crossbolted cast caps were cast of gray iron, not nodular.  I repeatedly complained to Genesis about this, and got assurances it would be dealt with, but the same huge palleted box of cap castings just kept getting used for production years later.  It's possible they've used up that batch and recast a new batch which might be nodular.  I wouldn't bank on it, since they didn't seem interested in the nodular issue.  You can't tell the Genesis caps are brittle until they crack, since they have the same stiffness and weight as nodular caps.  Be careful.  They crack just as readily when you torque them into place in the shop as when you are revving a supercharged engine.

Just my opinion,
Shoe.

[ToddK]

Are the steel caps available separately from Genesis?

[ScotiaFE]

I'd put my Geny up against any stock Ford block.
I'd be more worried about a rod letting go than the block caps cracking.
You have Todd thinking steel or no go.
That's just not the case.
I believe the Geny is good to 900 HP no problem. Stock caps and all.
I regularly took my 428 stock block close to 600 HP on the bottle and never seen any sign
of bottom end problems.
Looking at my Geny, It is massive compared to my 428.
Now the rings in the 428. That's another story. LOL

[DaveShoe]

I have been outta touch on the FE for a few years now, focused instead on my fantasy engine design project.

For a more recent 2009 description of what the new nodular Genesis caps look like reference:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182/message/1238173424
Click through the link to see new photos and expert info (not from me).

Genesis has now apparently switched to nodular cast caps.  When I prodded them early on Tim told me they did switch when they actually didn't, but they now probably have.   I do have a couple stories of early Genesis caps cracking, but none that caused serious damage, only warranty grief.

I like Genesis iron blocks, and I sorta prefer nodular caps over steel caps, but I'm just an iron addict.  I've attached a photo of the early Genesis caps.

Shoe.