Wilwood front disc brakes on 67-69 mustang

[rcodecj]

I am looking at the 140-11071-D Wilwood front disc brake kit for a 67-69 mustang.
The brake line kit they list is #220-12168 which has 18" brake lines.
I contacted Wilwood with concerns that the brake lines are too long. My current brake lines are around 14" long and they are plenty long a 12" might work, and I am aware they have to be long enough for full suspension travel. They told me "The caliper in this kit sits higher and in a different position from the OEM, which require a longer line."
In looking at the pics I don't see that it sits higher and if it sits in the rear instead of the front like my 67 then it could be even shorter.

Is anyone running Wilwood front disc brakes with a 67-69 mustang that could tell me what the brake lines look like.

Does it really need an 18" brake line?

Here's a link to the disc brake kit and the lines:
Thank you.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wil-140-11071-d/overview/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wil-220-12168/overview/


 

[jayb]

If the lines you get are too long, you can shorten them easily.  They are just teflon lined braided steel lines; nothing special.  Buy a #3 end for a teflon line, cut your brake line off where you want it and assemble the new end on the line.  I've done this several times without any issues.

I would also say that too long is probably better than too short, and that I used the 18" length line on my 69 Shelby clone.  You can position the frame end anywhere if you are making up your own hard lines, and being able to do that usually eliminates any issues with rubbing or binding.

[thatdarncat]

I'm going by memory here, I don't have any of my reference material handy, but I believe on a '67 Mustang ( and Cougar ) Ford routed the brake line differently depending on if it was a drum brake or disc brake car. Wilwood may have made the lines long to fit either possibility. In other words your car may require a short line, but someone else might need more length.

[rcodecj]

Thanks guys.
I ordered the disc brake kit today and I will order the lines when I see what it looks like since I am in no hurry.
Jay, thanks for the idea of how to shorten the lines.
thatdarncat,  thanks also, I do think there are some differences between disc and drum, I have had both type cars but it has been so long I don't remember.

[XR7]

Rcode,  can I ask you a couple questions and a favor? I am considering this kit and have a friend that is as well. We were curious about the weight savings versus OEM. You didn't mention that you had disc or drum to start with, but I would assume disc. Could you please weigh the parts that come off and then weigh the new kit to see the actual difference. They claim "up to 35 pounds less", but don't really mention if disc or drum, etc. and I think that is a just a general statement and probably varies a lot with different cars, not Ford specific.

Also I have heard and thought I even read it somewhere that this actual kit ends up moving the track width wider by 1/2 or 3/4 of an inch at the wheels. I don't know if that is actual either, or for each side or total or what... I would also ask if you could measure that somehow, and confirm if true and by how much. I have discs and my buddy has drums, but my front wheels already have an outboard stance and I wouldn't want them pushed out further.

One last comment is on the front brake lines you questioned about length. I see that Wilwood has "universal brake line kits", that are available in 14, 16, and 18" lengths. You can also just buy the braided brake lines at Speedway or even on EBAY that are available straight or with 90* on one end, in 12, 15, and 18" lengths. Then just buy the fitting adapter to the Ford line, the fitting on the caliper is just a 1/8 pipe to 3AN I believe. Probably cheaper just to do your own, or just get their kit if you don't mind paying for some extra adapters you won't use.

I am guessing you have your kit by now so hopefully you will have a better idea on some of this. Let me know what/when you can!

Thanks in advance!

[rcodecj]

My car is a 67 mustang coupe that originally had a 289. It had the small drum brakes, not the big block 2" drum brakes when I bought the car.
I first put the Stainless Steel Brake Corp kit on it, the A121 kit.
I now have the Wilwood 140-11071-D kit, which by the way you can get with polished calipers instead of the black or red calipers for only around $45 more.
The polish job on the calipers is amazing.

Now for the weight:

A121 SSBC front disc brake kit minus the master cylinder was 70 lbs.

The original 1967 mustang 289 stock drum brakes minus the master cylinder was 67 lbs.

The Wilwood 140-11071-D front disc brake kit with no master cylinder or brake lines is 37 lbs.

All weighed on the same digital bath scale so take it for what it's worth.   

As far as the wider track width I have the drums off already but I expect it to be +.090 because that is what Wilwood says:
http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/BrakeKitsProdFront.aspx?itemno=140-11071-D
I will know if it is very far off because my front tires are close now to the outside of the fenderwell.
If it is off I will let you know.

If I remember correctly, in the past the Wilwood kit was 3/4" wider track width. That is why I went with SSBC originally.

I have brake lines coming tomorrow so I'll let you know how that turns out.

[rcodecj]

Surprisingly I measured that the SSBC track width is around .050 wider than the Wilwood.
If I remember right original disc brakes are wider than drum brakes.
Now that being said Wilwood has exact measurements on their site and I would measure what you have so you are not surprised or disappointed because my measurements could be somewhat off.
No guarantees! 

Also check their measurements to make sure your wheels will fit and clear.

[XR7]

Wow! Thanks for all the great info. It looks like they have re-designed the hub, and got rid of almost all of that offset I mentioned. That is a good thing... I can live with .090 or thereabouts.

Did your kit come with the thin steel wheel shims that go between the hub and wheel? They are .090 and I wonder if they are talking about that as far as offset, or that would be in addition, if needed (probably). These are for if your wheel does not contact the hub face completely, the spacer is bigger OD to contact the wheel... and/or used if you have steel wheels to protect the aluminum hub). I saw they were in some parts pictures, and not in others.

Keep us posted on your progress, also, some pictures would be great!

 Thanks again.

[rcodecj]

It did come with a wheel spacer, but it is only .200" thick.
part#300-11961

Something else I like about the Wilwood is that the wheel studs are screw in. It will be easy to screw in 3" wheel studs to use with my Prostar rims.

I almost forgot, while installing the caliper mounting bracket, one of the nuts stripped on the bolt, so I am waiting for Wilwood to send me a bolt and nut.
They are coated, almost looks like galvanized and it is very gritty. Odd, but this crap always happens to me.

EDIT TO CHANGE SPACER THICKNESS TO .200 THICK.

[jayb]

For what it's worth the Wilwood kit on the front of my 69 Mach 1 saved 40 pounds over the stock disc brakes.  Seems like that is pretty much in line with what rcodecj measured.  Mine also came with spacers, but they were wider, .060" I think.

[rcodecj]

Jay, did you notice better stopping ability after changing from stock to Wilwood because that is what I am hoping for also.
Wilwood tech told me that I would but of course they are a bit biased.

[rcodecj]

Ok, I measured the spacer and it is .200, not .020 
Sorry about that, I'll edit the post below.

[jayb]

Jay, did you notice better stopping ability after changing from stock to Wilwood because that is what I am hoping for also.
Wilwood tech told me that I would but of course they are a bit biased.

I did get better stopping, but my original brake setup was not in great shape so I'm not sure it is a fair comparison.  One thing about both the stock brakes and the Wilwoods is that neither one does a great job holding the car in the burnout box at the track; with both sets of brakes the car wants to go to one side or the other during the burnout in most cases.  I'm almost wondering if my line lock is leaking...

[rcodecj]

Jay, did you notice better stopping ability after changing from stock to Wilwood because that is what I am hoping for also.
Wilwood tech told me that I would but of course they are a bit biased.

I did get better stopping, but my original brake setup was not in great shape so I'm not sure it is a fair comparison.  One thing about both the stock brakes and the Wilwoods is that neither one does a great job holding the car in the burnout box at the track; with both sets of brakes the car wants to go to one side or the other during the burnout in most cases.  I'm almost wondering if my line lock is leaking...

I've had that problem a few times but it was because they were really poor sometimes at keeping the burnout area wet sometimes at the track, so I blame that on the rear traction rather than the front brake, at least in my case.

[rcodecj]

Jay,
I have been thinking of getting a brake pressure gauge.
In your case I think it would help to determine whether or not your line lock is leaking down.
I like this one:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ssb-a1704/overview/